nah he’s okay in br with every 3 seconds perk talent.
but i agree with those who say that, in ranked, there’s more better option. saw with 6.5 range and boe will bully him
What did i do to deserve this…
So it seems you want a team of early game heros to snowball the other side?
Perhaps .
But still your damage late game can be outdamage by any wp carry.
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yep, this was my experience as well. early game burst was just so good. i almost 2 shotted ardan in 12 seconds. then kestrel finished him off.
I tried his hybrid build and snowballed so hard, it ended in 11 minutes, it was casuals though and ardan was the only decent player on the enemy team.
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I mean I picked Sam for mid forgetting my mid laner usually likes to Lyra mid, so I went WP Sam bot and dominated my lane. Keep in mind I was against a t6 in my lane, but my t7 top laner smacked the enemy bot laner who was POA like me. He is not broken, but he is also not unviable in wp. I was able to deal pretty good damage in team fights.
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I’m going to be blunt about this. Winning with an off meta pick one or two times (especially vs bad players) in no way guarantees viability. The overall numbers are what matter. Even numbers aside, its important to analyze whether it was WP Samuel specifically that made a difference - or if the opponents were just bad or the other 4 allies countered the enemy team, etc… There are many factors that can make you win that don’t have anything to do with your chosen pick. I’ve climbed ranked before playing exclusively CP Saw. Doesn’t make it a good idea.
The main reason you don’t usually see a WP Samuel is that it doesn’t play to his strengths of siege and poke, while being inferior as a DPS choice. The main scenario it makes sense to swap to WP is if the enemy counterpicks your Samuel with things like Idris and Skye and whatnot, who are really, really hard to kill when you go CP.
Samuel has nothing going for him WP otherwise. It doesn’t exactly “not” work, but it doesn’t make use of his kit just like WP Adagio. WP Adagio works because CP Adagio is clunky and lower DPS and the same exact range. The major difference here is that Samuel is much, much more valuable as a super long range poke/sieger and WP Adagio is not very fun any other build path. Ringo and Gwen build WP because they output more reliable damage that way as well.
Speaking of Gwen specifically - someone did a DPS calculation when she was first released. Her DPS was the same whether you waited for her perk, or just spammed regular autoattacks. Recently, her perk was changed to happen faster - meaning that spamming her perk should net you more raw damage now (if her bonus damage hasnt changed, I forgot). Her perk also comes up more frequently with attack speed. Her A and C are not intended for DPS, let’s not go there.
Many of the WP paths are duellists in one form or another. To continue on the Gwen to Samuel comparison, Samuel has 1 tiny speed boost, and an easily dodgeable CC. Gwen has a CC/Reveal, a free Reflex Block, and a stun that is hard to block at close range. She is also built for trading in lanes. If each of them were to be dived, Gwen has a far better chance of getting away - which is entirely relevant to this discussion because autoattacks have less range than abilities.
The whole reason Samuel (and Skaarf) have high base damage on autos is to aid their last-hitting. Celeste and Vox and the snipers generally have lower because they build WP that compensates for this, or have alternate scaling.
Also worth noting - Ardan, Krul, Catherine, Idris, Saw, Taka, and probably Reza would all have super high burst building proc stuff. Doesn’t mean they should. But still. I mean. Can you just imagine the glory of a Saw running up and shanking someone while proccing Stormcrown and Aftershock and TensionBow (with a Sorrowblade!) all at once? (Roadie Run counts as an Autoattack FYI) Don’t tell me it isn’t viable! It can do SO MUCH DAMAGE!!! Who needs DPS when you can try to one shot carries?
(yes, the bit about Saw is sarcasm, but I have actually tried that before. I was really trying to point out the holes in some of the prior arguments.)
P.S. it works to play wP Samuel into CP, or WP Skaarf into CP, and so on, because its just easier to do that 1v1. The CP variants are for poking (turrets and laners) and teamfighting, not duelling. So all it proves is CP Samuel’s weakness to duelists much of the time.
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I remember seeing him in a stream long time ago
But the guy playing him built all crit with sorrowblade and played him like assassin , you just need to hide then surprise your enemy , because you have no escape , they can dive you easy without your cp damage you cant use your B and kite , so you have to surprise enemy kill and back off .
Same thing for krul or any wp carry , you could surprise enemies and kill them fast , but the good thing with samuel is his sustain from his perk , so you dont need life steal , just crit like double TT and monocle with SB .
You can’t ignore her heroic perk, you’re supposed to abuse the 40% broomstick attak with your TB proc, it’s a nightmare early game and it’s what makes her so damn good right now.
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gwen has 65% wp perk on A and 100% on C.
Lets say both sam and gwen have the same build and they also have BP. At 300 wp a single combo of auto A and C adds 205% WP ratio vs Samuel who has a nonscaling perk…
That added damage also helps scale her BP even more so she will outdamage him further with every hit. Every perk A or C will add to the BP stacks…
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Could you tell what your hybrid build was? im curious and would love to try it if it was as good as you say it to be.
My intention had nothing to do with Gwen. I understand why she came up, but the controversy was completely unnecessary. I hate to see the post be driven into the ground just because of this build being counterable by gwen.
The scenario was not gwen, but Skye. Thats why i was wondering if i had just a good counter pick (besides the fact that the skye was terrible) I want to know what all its viable against if and when you put the numbers into in.
This is beautiful. I like this sidenote btw
You can’t use an isolated match vs poor players at low skill tier to suggest that a style of play is viable. This match seems to suggest you just beat up a terrible player. He has one only once with Skye and built an eve as first item, he clearly had no idea how to play her.
As a rule high mobility WP lanes are going to be a problem for CP Skye as the ability to land rapid DMG whilst kiting her abilities is a problem (think Vox, BF etc). However what happens when sky is WP? She’s more mobile than you, has WP ratios on her abilites etc etc… if you’d run into a decent WP Skye she’s have just run over you as WP Samuel.
I get that. so I tried it 4 other times and the results came somewhat similarly to this one. I believe the comp was Myself as Samuel, An Ardan and A CP BF. The enemy was a Skaarf, Adagio, and petal. I dont remember the exact stats and didnt bother to screenshot it, but we still won with a decent amount of kills. each time except one, we won. Now granted i am t4G so that probably does make a difference between lower and higher tiers. My build also did fluctuate but it always had SM in it.
Don’t want to call you out but your VGPro suggests you’ve done this once in 3v3, unless you’ve played this in the past. You’ve done it in BR, but then BR is BS so proves nothing either way.
This whole thread is rather pointless, this is an off meta build at best. Her kit doesn’t syncs with WP, her abilites don’t have WP ratios, and don’t offer increased attack speeds etc etc. In short sure you might win a match here and there but you’ll never out trade a Ringo or a Gwen whose abilites synch with WP.
Honestly at tier 4 I could build all TT and still beat 70/80 of the players.
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TB, Spell Fire, and i was building towards CW. I would’ve went SG after that.
Din’t I mention it was a Casual full of unskilled players? don’t get idea’s based on 1 game. I did try a full WP build and got really crappy results. its not worth building attack speed because it doesn’t make your perk proc any sooner. its 6 seconds, flat.
Also, you really need to keep an eye on TB , erm… new term creation: Ability Awareness. So you don’t waste it on a minion.
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Yes. And using the skills still lowers her DPS output. So why the ■■■■ are we discussing whether or not the WP scaling on her skills is relevant in a damage trade, when using them lowers her DPS? Does that make any sort of sense?
Really, dude. What this comes down to is the following: Every time you see a post about off-meta play, you jump to hasty conclusions. And you do so without having the first idea, be it about the numbers involved or the gameplay - which you just demonstrated again.
Just think for a moment, before making those posts. That’s really all I’m asking.
I was on one of my other accounts. I have like 2 or 3. I dont use them as much. Sorry for the confusion
I know. This was not my intention for people to argue over the fact that gwen is better or as equal to sam. I just wanted to know if it was viable in any other case than what i was in. I dont need people hating on me or anyone just because of their opinion on whos better. In a sense i kinda want the thread removed. But its whatever
Hmm, back in the good ol’ days with Blitz without talents, I always instalocked WP Samuel for about a month and ~ 40 matches. I won every match, every single one! The first time lost was against another WP Sam who was better than me. Just wanted to leave this here, I felt like sharing this since this is a WP Sam thread 
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