Because @Inktomi justified his points by saying that her WR and PR were average… when basically there is no way s/he could know it.
Because @Inktomi used stats to prove she wasn’t op, when in reality there are no stats. It was a trap. That argument is just not valid. It’s Inktomi assuming the stats. 
Oh 
just imagining how this might turn out, Ill just step back.
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Thats a good option. I will do the same though, not interested in discussing the possible and unknown stats of a hero that was nerfed. I just found it interesting how he used them.
Sorry, I meant when we had stats. I thought I included the disclaimer about sites not being updated recently, but I guess I didn’t . However, she’s also not been touched since then (except for Tension Bow getting nerfed a bit)
Also, I’m not sure I’d complain about her power level still, but the double whammy of doubling her energy costs and making SGB only damage jungle creatures makes her first several levels a lot less fun. Inara has always needed to avoid a lot of fights in the early game, and often needs to focus on farming aggressively to starve out opposition who would beat her in a direct fight. That’s still the case but now she needs to avoid using abilities while farming, and she lacks the damage or energy for the fights she used to get in. It helps to add a battery early, but that sets her build back. She fights better if she starts with weapon blades, but since she needs to farm without abilities, that is super slow. It’s not impossible to work around, but it’s a chore.
Part of the annoyance is that it doesn’t have that big an impact on the game, it’s just a lot less fun. The game is better when you can get into the action faster.
… and this doesn’t mean anything as when you change items, other heroes, meta changes, etc - the “not touched” hero can benefit or suffer leading to different “tier” for him.
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I’ve been playing Caine a bunch. His voice and look still annoys me, but he has a very active style, even when he’s just killing minions. Overall, he seems very strong in the laning phase of the game, but a bit weak in team fights (with big exceptions).
In the early part of the game, he can stay in his lane until the shops spawn and perform well against any enemy laner. I start him with a Weapon Blade and Book of Eulogies, get his A first at level 1 then focus on raising his B first after that. I use his B on basically every cooldown, and that boosts his damage output enough that he can stay in the lane until he’s ready to buy a tier 3 item. Last hits can be tricky for him early on, but not too bad once you get used to watching your ammo.
He is excellent at poking, and at killing turrets, and is better than other snipers at quickly clearing waves. In the early game, he pokes by using his B to move past the minions or to their side and then hitting the enemy withhold A; it’s not too oppressive, but it’s enough to keep most enemies from getting too aggressive. At level 6, his Ult is an amazing poke when you learn to hit with it; the range means that you can often push other laners too far back for them to farm. His Ult is also a safe way to strike back even when he’s hiding under a turret. I usually build him with Spellsword and Halcyon Chargers as his first two items, and he will begin to be able to constantly cycle his abilities around level 8; the pattern is to hit the enemy laner with his Ult, then either use the A to clear minions or to run in range of the enemy laner and hit him again, then use B to hop back out the max range of his Ult, then wash, rinse, and repeat. His Ult is good for quickly killing minions to, and he can chain abilities to quickly cut down turrets (using the range of his Ult he can hit them even with enemies standing under them). In the laning phase, he’s freaking oppressive.
Caine’s downside seems to be that he’s a bit weak in the late game (again, with big exceptions). I rush Spellsword, Halcyon Chargers, and Tension Bow (in that order) but his damage doesn’t seem to get much better from there. Anything with attack speed is kind of bad for him, so I’ve mostly been finishing out his offense with a couple of Tyrants Monacles, but it doesn’t put him in the league of Gwen, Kinetic, etc. He sprays a lot of damage around with his A and Ult, but has trouble turning that into kills (compared to other WP carries).
The big exception has been in matches where I had a good captain babysitting me — In those matches Caine was just devastating in team fights. Basically, Caine needs someone between him and the enemy, moreso that heroes like Gwen, Kinetic, Ringo, or Vox. He’s better at adjusting position to prevent a dive than at reacting to one once it happens, so if he has a solid captain (preferably one who can protect him or disrupt dives) then he can just pour the damage on. He’s a bit like Magnus in that he needs to be protected, but he can hit the whole enemy team, and once he wears them down with repeated A and Ult, the excite will start working.
Because of his performance in team fights, I’d say he’d generally be a bit weak in lower tiers, but might be great in tiers where you can expect every player to be good. His early game is really strong, but if you’re solo queue in the low tiers he’s not likely to do much later. I had really good matches with tier 9 captains though (not sure if that means Caine is good, or just good captains carrying me).
I haven’t played him in ranked 3s, but he’s been incredible in casuals. He’s not great in a level 1 fight at the middle treant, but his strong early laning can contribute to snowballing, and he’ll always be under a captains close supervision. He’s overal not great in the jungle, but his Ult has enough range that he can send it through walls and into team fights. With fewer ways for enemies to reach him, fewer enemies to focus him, and tighter teamwork, 3v3 seems to emphasize his strengths and minimize weaknesses.
Really early still, but that’s how he seems so far.
This new Ozo skin really does remind me of Infernape. I’d never buy it, but since I have the blueprint, I might as well use it since it’s better than the Winged Ozo skin. That one is basically a recolor of the default skin.
I think the balance team killed phinn hard with the energy , I played him yesterday and I was going to base after each semi fight , usually with that build I can stay in fights with a lot of energy and that’s in 3v3 I don’t know how people going to manage his energy in 5v5 , if you see phinn in the enemy team just play around and make him waste his energy and you going to win , they want clockwork to be main part of his build .
Phin was perfectly fine in 4.1, dunno why they nerfed him at all. He was even not on the strongest side, he was just ok and not picked frequently.
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7 posts were merged into an existing topic: Lyra: Builds and Playstyle Tips
They increased the energy cost for almost everyone to make energy management important, not to just build energy and don’t care anymore.
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Yes, but at the same time they nerfed a lot of items that gave energy like 
or 
(they gave energy, now only cooldown and no energy) - this way they force few selected items or atleast to have one/two of them to get enough energy regeneration. This is ok? For me energy to be resource needing attention is critical and important, but they should give more potential items buy for energy, atleast t3 ones.
I don’t agree with the changes, but that’s another story, I’m just telling you the reason behind those changes.
I know the reasoning and I agree with it (didn’t like the time when energy was totally of no concern at all on any hero), I just think that they overdo it on some heroes while other doesn’t even have energy… kinda funny, saying how important energy is and then release two new heroes one after another without energy at all.
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And I want to add that after playing phinn and adagio I actually see why they nerfed adagio , it was questionable but after seeing phinn struggle I think if adagio left untouched he would be banned , because he has no energy problem for anyone maining him adding to that long range he would be so strong compared to other roamers struggling mid fights with energy , like right now I prefer adagio over any roam hero .
Adagio was nerfed because his WP path, not due to the energy changes
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I hope next patch Reim becomes somewhat useable again.
Dude was alive for a patch until they nerfed him >:((
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Yeah + with the new move speed a lot of heroes suffers (read: are nerfed this patch), reim is among them and it adds on top of the other nerfs…
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It’s related to the energy changes even to his wp path , there was a lot of options they could do instead of what they did , I agree on the changes looked more to nerf his wp path but seeing the energy changes to other heroes made his change look more a nerf to his roam path also , his long range is one of the reasons that makes him manage the energy without getting punished , with the range nerf he needs now to plan and manage his energy .