Yes. Not disagreeing with anything but the in soloq part. Yes he’s a great harasser. None of that helps if your teamates are doing stupid stuff and you end up with runners or people that don’t take advantage of you pulling in the enemy or stunning them, or those lane pushers that never help in a teamfight. That is what I’m talking about.
And the difference with every single other captain is…?
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Exactly what I asked a few times but no answer. I am also sure you’re one of the people who understand the pain or facing Churnwalker the best as you only play 3v3 and there he’s even better.
If you build damage he can’t 1v1 that’s true. Also I didn’t say he can win 1v1 against a carry if both are full HP but he can completely destroy someone’s advantage by dropping their HP low causing them to recall.
It’s the only roam I see. You get hitted by a chain so you retreat but oh, once you try to enter the fight there comes another chain! Retreating is not viable as he has almost no cooldown, and if you get chained… you lose the fight.
Exactly why I HAAAATE this hero so much. There is just no counter play to that in the tiny spaces of 3v3. I like the hero but I mean he’s my most hated hero to face and in my opinion only ban worthy hero in 3v3. Others might be good but even if they’re good they can be beaten. Good Churnwalker no chance unless his team is AFK.
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Agree, at least the other heroes have some sort of counterplay, CW has nothing, rn is almost a instant win.
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Plus his chains are way too annoying and glitches at times where it wouldnt break after a quite reasonable distance.
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Other captains can flex/hybrid if need be and try to get some kills by themself. Churnwalker cannot do that against any somewhat competent enemy by himself. EVERY other captain can get a kill by themselves or wear down an enemy enough
Churnwalker can harass, sure, but he cannot reliably hybrid or flex to make up for a bad teamate. He can pretty much ONLY captain.
@Bobmax I think you’re over exaggerating how much hp churnwalker’s chains can do. Yeah if the enemy just stands there and doesn’t try to use boots or doesn’t have lifesteal to counter while they’re attacking him, not to mention if he’s facing another captain. By the way, that’s another thing: every other captain will best him 1v1 if he has to hold a lane when an ally dies or something. And those situations are why I said like 3 times that I’m not disagreeing with anything else you’re saying other than you are more likely to run into situations like that in soloq and while other captains can TRY to make up for it, he can’t.
Yet he still can wear down an enemy pretty easily. Just because he can’t hybrid doesn’t mean he is team dependent.
Sigh. Any enemy with some kind of lifesteal attacking churn is not going to be worried about being worn down if they face him and he’s stuck holding an objective off by himself. The only thing they’ll realistically worry about is an enemy coming to assist him BECAUSE he’s churnwalker, which again, doesn’t happen in solo q often enough for it to be a general disadvantage against him. The go too for almost any churnwalker stuck with a dead teamate is to run and help the next teamate and hope someone rotates. The guy can barely clear minion waves by himself while almost every other captain can with no hassle, or they might be forced to use an ult like cath. Churnwalker has nothing in this department. It’s why you never see a churn holding off a lane by himself against a carry or jungler. That is what I’m trying to explain. And you run into this often in soloq.
I do see it.
You know you can just chain the enemy and be out their range right?
Yes and the enemy will usually try to close the gap, forcing churnwalker to use his ult, which removes that. Not to mention if he’s facing a ranged enemy. C’mon man. I’m not saying the guy is bad. I’m saying every other hero can reliably hold their own as capt even with NO damage items and still eek out a kill sometimes. He can almost never do that unless he drags enemies under his turret. Or they’re already massively low hp and have no escape options left.
And yes SOMETIMES you see churn trying to hold off but unless a teamate comes and helps him eventually it is ALWAYS a losing battle for him. He will get overrun by minions, he will not be doing enough dmg. He will eventually be forced to retreat. No other captain is literally forced to retreat without an ally in almost EVERY situation when they’re alone. He struggles with even taking a turret by himself even if he’s free to do so.
He has longer range than any other carry in his chains, so he can just walk away without breaking them. Honestly… do you even play him? Minions doesn’t force him to retreat. He is not designed to take turrets, but he can battle against the carries during the early, even in 1v1.
Actually Wp Churnwalker is great and still is great.
Just go the sustain tank build and you’ll be alright
To a degree. I dunno if I’d say great, but in respect to the debate, he can do a lot more than his full capt. counterpart in more situations.
@Guest_78 dude no. He’s going to eventually have the gap closed if he’s facing a meleer and a ranged carry will be able to hit him anyway even if he walks away, not to mention if he gets far enough the enemy he’s facing can just go in the other direction. And no minions by themself don’t force him to retreat, but if he is facing a group of minions and any other hero or captain by himself it is highly likely he will be forced to retreat from both. And yes, he can battle early. I said that earlier. I added that that early advantage diminishes VERY fast and he can no longer do that if the enemy has just a few items and levels. Also another thing: he’s not meant to take turrets but every other captain can with some difficulty if they’re free to. As @RiseChu said, wp churn is different and won’t struggle as hard with this, but to be effective as wp churn you have to sacrifice a good amount of capt items to not have just wasted a defense slot on wp.
I went against a Roam Catherine , Cp Vox, and Wp ChurnJungler. Lets just say it was madness
lol I can imagine. I’m sure the Cath was pissed.
I think you don’t realize the impact of his chains. They literally control the entire fight and game. 1 thing that’s actually a good argument is that he has bad clear. He probably has the worst wave clear out of all roams. But even then it’s not that bad considering most roams have bad clear and can’t defend against wave + carry with the exception of Lance because he can reposition the wave.
On the other hand though, with literally 2 out of the 4 carry positions not building ANY damage items except maybe pulseweave I can’t possibly know why you’d build damage on roams. He deals sometimes 50,000 damage as a roam with 0 damage items. He doesn’t need to be hybrid. And by the way you can’t “just” walk away from chains. It’s very long distance and just forces you to disengage and leave your team with a no CD/2 sec CD ability.
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I’m not underestimating the impact of his chains but again man, in do or die situations when an ally screws up or isn’t helping and he’s stuck trying to make things work against 1 or more enemies, he can barely so squat with his chains, where other captains can do way more. Yes, when he has someone helping dmg that’s a whole other story, but in solo q people screw up and do stupid stuff or don’t coordinate all the time, and you can’t be around for every situation across the map where that is occurring and even if you do get to a conflict if an ally is too weak you can be stuck anyway, even if you heal them, simply because his pressure is close to nonexistent unless enemies are taking damage from another source besides his chains and himself, where every other captain has some solo pressure. And again…no you don’t have to disengage his chains if you have lifesteal and some att and if you have boots or a reflex you can. Either way the point simply is that a churnwalker in a screwed up situatiom is much more screwed than any other capt due to his kit, and a churnwalker in a non-screwed up situation is potentially better than any other captain.
Another thing he can’t do with any reliability is steal an objective if he’s stuck. Almost every other captain can except maybe capt lance and capt fortress. In solo q you get stuck in these situations more often. Inherently logically, churnwalker is at a disadvantage.