Oldskool's hero ratings


It was me who climbed to vg in 5v5 and poa in 3v3.
Countless match I came across.

Even most of the time I usually play cp lyra or lorelai. Their highest damage is AA with DE. So obviously Lyra/lorelai will dish out as much as AA as they can and Lyra has 12 range.

Sure killing doesn’t mean counter, but still doesn’t change the fact that Lyra or Lorelai are able to AA easily and easily eliminate celeste in late game.

And also it doesn’t matter if celeste is horrible. Cp lorelai playstyle is use to empowered stun to dish as much as damage as possible with fish food that persist and while being stun she dish AA too. Sure celeste counter would galaxy collapse. Imagine if they both stun at the same time, lorelai would quickly recover and imeediately slow celeste or cast her barrier and tries to eliminate her.

Lyra, ult and bulwark. Throw her A to celeste location and AA with DE and eliminate her. Her stun isn’t going to help her in bulwark anyways.

And her A damage is 300+ or maybe 400+ per sec and burst damage is huge too… more than nova…

Yes back then celeste was Lyra’s counter but now she isn’t. Simply because Lyra is damage is stronger and higher in late game.

Or maybe according to you. My enemies team who were playing celeste were prolly lousy.

Or maybe i should climb to silver and then talk about it again?


I’ve seen Reza and Anka go through the entire draft but never Lorelai. She barely makes it to 2nd pick. Always banned or first picked.

That’s the reason they’re all viable unlike him.

But your opinion isn’t discarded because you are low tier and have an opinion. The thing is that it’s based on experience when you’re facing almost unranked opponents. Literally anything can work in low tiers. Basing your opinion on your own games there doesn’t mean something is viable.

But pro players would have 100% win rate in low tier though?


It matters quite a bit though.

She has quite a bit more range than their AA range. If you can AA her, then she is plain bad.

… and Celeste.

A fight Celeste would win easily. With her supernova dealing 700-900 damage there isn’t much lorelai can do.

BB does nothing against Celeste. Use the port to dive her and die lol, she has a team, you can’t dive her like that.

And she is going to stand there without doing anything? Her supernova deals far more damage than Lyra’s A. Again, you can’t dive her like that.

More than your BB.

But they know how to something called “moving”.

And less than supernova.

Can’t agree with this. In terms of damage Celeste>>>>Lyra.

Yes. They seem terrible.

I don’t care about the rank, I care about you being just one player, which proves nothing. If I say I won with Silvernail roam against a team with phin, does it proves Silvernail is better as a roam than phin?

How many matches are you talking about? 30? 100? 200? 1000? Vs hundreds of thousands of matches. Such a low sample size doesn’t prove a general rule.


I told you not to quote me on that as I won’t be discussing it.


This, is gold. One player proves nothing. Even if you’ve played 2 thousand matches, it proves nothing.


That why i made the thread the other day. They don’t ban lorelai in 3v3… 5v5 sometimes


Because you have to ban Churnwalker, Idris, Anka, Kinetic, Lorelai, Vox… too many heroes for only 2 bans, you need to chose, and some people prefer ones and other players prefer others.


I know. It kinda obvious. But banning vox and kinetic is just dumb. Honestly other heros can counter them.


This is 3v3, not 5v5. Kinetic is the highest win rate hero in that more (60%), able to outdamage all other carries, strong in early, mid, and late game. Then we have Vox, whose damage with DE is second to none. There is a reason why everyone spams it.

Edit: this is OFF Topic, if you want to continue arguing it will have to be in private.


I did quote because honestly celeste is weaker… and even with your team. Lyra has A range of 12 to stack her DE up and detonate.

But my guess would celeste player is terrible. Lol


Maybe it just sea region. But i don’t see a need to ban vox or kinetic.

Churn and anka idris or yate seems more worthy ban.and yeah end the chat here.


For you. 1 player vs… all the rest?

Lyra OTP vs Bad Celeste = Celeste loses => Lyra must be better

The rest of the world:
Lyra vs Celeste in equal skill = Celeste wins 55% of the time, 5th strongest hero against Lyra => Celeste counters Lyra.

Explained? 1 player proves nothing at all. Do I give more credit to the pros than to you? Yes, of course. Is it personal? Not at all, they are just the best players in the world, and if all the best players in the world think the same, chances are they might be right.

End of discussion.


The heroes I see banned more often are CW, Anka, Lorelai and Idris; I see sometimes also Vox and Kinetic


In a perfect world, every hero would be balanced at every skill level. My point is that noobs need something they can see success with, and that’s more important than the same hero a noob can use being useful at higher tiers.

As players get more skilled, they can move away from SAW and Krul, or use them less frequently, but it’s important to have a few relatively easy heroes that a less experienced player can use to carry matches.

I’m not saying that they shouldn’t also work at high tiers, but they shouldn’t lose their low tier effectiveness, and that their noob-friendliness is more important than how they work at high tiers.

Any game needs a path for low skill players to see comparatively high success, so that those players can be brought in. It’s possible for a hero who works well at tier 4 to also work well at tier 9 (Gwen is an example), but just having a selection of heroes that work at each tier is good enough, and if the current selection of low-tier terrrors were changed so that they worked in high tiers but not low, that would be bad for the game.

A lot of what makes heroes like SAW and Krul work so much better at low tiers is that playing against them forces you to learn some basics of the game, and as soon as players learn them they start to get past them.

More important than making low-tier heroes work at high tier is getting some of the heroes that don’t work at any tier to have a niche.

I’m not saying that those heroes should never be fixed for high tier, but they fill a valuable and necessary role as they are.


In 3v3 there is no carry who can beat her, she outdamage every other carry with great early game and better late game, so is almost impossible to harass her, and once she gets full build she is unstoppable


But… all works in low elo. 3030


What happened is that Baron got nerfed to death and top lane is unplayable thanks to how hard it is from taking your own treant and then going to lane. Also due to stormcrown change it just inherently nerfed GJ greatly. It’s just a mixture of changes coming together and the fact that attack speed is practically on every good item it truly does not matter if you have bad scaling or not.

I’m not suggesting a direct damage change. I’m suggesting an energy change that makes her less of a braindead hero who basically becomes unkillable when the jungler is camping due to her poke.

I was also the same person saying that Silvernail is OP during his patch release but a few people told me since pros aren’t playing him then he is weak.


No there most certainly do NOT need to be noob stomp heroes. You can’t not have them but you shouldn’t be trying to have them. Koshka, Ardan, Ringo are noob-friendly heroes and they aren’t oppressive. If we asked low tiers do they like or hate Taka what do you think would be the answer? You think they enjoy not being able to counter it? Balance is when everything is balanced and viable in high tiers not low tiers. Anything could work there, you can never balance based on them. If you’re new would you rather stay in the game because you like Taka or would you quit because that damn fox keeps slashing you and going invisible without any counterplay (we all know there’s no way to fight him back)?

I said change those heroes, not buff them. If you buff them of course they’ll be even worse to deal with in low tiers. But even then regardless of how good the hero is they still find it OP so it’s not like it matters that much. You don’t make heroes be based on tiers. They all cost 8000, they all need to work if you can play them. Heroes shouldn’t be as if you upgraded your gun in a shooter game. They are all unique heroes on their own. You don’t make them work at different tiers. You make them work at the top and the ones that are very oppressive in low tiers get changes. Why should a player that likes Alpha, Krul, SAW, Taka etc not ever be able to play their favourite heroes because new players don’t understand the game? Does that sound okay?

Don’t know what you’re saying but these heroes are just as bad between high and low elo as they have been since release basically.


Um. 100% win rate in a 5v5 game where I have no control over the other 4 players is asking A LOT lol. Like. A huuuge amount. I just had a game as cp saw where I stressed being a SAW main from the start. Needlessly my team babysat. Needlessly we lost top and bot. Needlessly enemy clumped in mid next. Needlessly, all because EVERYONE THINKS THEY KNOW WHO TO PLAY and it is ANNOYING AS ALL FREAKING HELL. I petition to stop hero rankings. Right here. Right now. I’m the only one who had 1 death. 1 death! Stop trying to rank heroes when everyone builds differently! JEEZ. Vainglory is a suuper flexible game. It cannot be quantified and simplified easily. I mean armor and shield skaarf is one of THE best heroes and he’s not common. It’s getting ridiculous. And i have been STOMPING with defense skaarf for 2 years to the point i don’t even build boots on him sometimes. That badly. Yes im low tier. Yes i ALWAYS get matched with tier 6-9 and almost never lower. Like stopp doing this guise.


No boots skaarf? Lol, it’s really easy to dive you then, you can’t disenage.

Edit: You are below 50% winrate in every game mode, so you don’t win most of the times, and I don’t see those t9 you said, only unranked and t5 - t7…


Were are the t9 players? seeing your VGPro in your last 20 matches (ranked 5v5) only one of them had 2 POA players, one in each team, also 1 SA in each team. Outside from that, your matches go from t4 players to t6, with some t7 players occasionally. Also, given that your win rate in that mode is 45.9%, maybe its not always your team’s fault.