Why no Taka nerf?

Vainglory Discussion 5v5
21

Yeah, until people got smart. Especially Wartreads were a stronger choice for Carries than Stormcrown ever has been. Not even a comparison. I often built it as second “defense” item, and completely murdered people with the added utility.
Folks were having fun with Contraptions on every team member for the AoE true damage, too.

Shortly after that sort of thing surfaced more widely, the Stormcrown change put a spotlight on “Roam”-items, and the unwashed masses started salivating over the CDR. In fact, it was a full-blown nerf, though. Which people still don’t get to this day.

22

A well drafted team should show he isn’t as good as people think. IMO he’s strong, but he has good counters in the game, not least of which would be properly managed vision.

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23

Semc needs to make it so that he is only immune to damage or CC, not both. Not even reflex block allows that, which he can also build. Considering with a cool down build he can Kaku like every 3 seconds and heal with his stealth, as well as reflex block, it’s way too broken.

Like I said, his kit is way too loaded. If Semc is going to de-load black feathers kit, they definitely need to de-load Taka.

He is fast, hits hard, and has ridiculous duribility without even needing to build defense.

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24

From over 300,000 matches of data of 5v5 in 3.0 Vainsocial has Taka as a bottom 5 hero in win rate. When he gets a snowball going he can be a monster, but that’s pretty much true with a lot of heroes in 5v5.

The Superscout 2000 plus scout cams for every player is a huge hindrance to stealth heroes. This is why flicker got that ridiculous true sight buff for mooncloak and ends up still being near the bottom of all captains.

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25

Um, how do I put this. No. Taka is not OP.

Guys. What objectively, makes you think Taka is actually OP? Gut feelings? Bad games against a Taka player with a crappy team? Lots of heroes can roflstomp uncoordinated teams. Big deal. Alpha is way stronger. If you want to complain about someone go check her.

Even after his AS SC CW build which really only emphasizes his cooldowns - he needs raw CP to make his damage scale and you don’t get that spamming cooldowns. Oh and he might just need a Broken Myth too since people like buying Aegis vs him.

If we were to actually analyze his kit - his A gives him a very obvious reflex block - 99% of the time Taka players use it after their C so you literally wait 1.5 seconds then blow him up after his ult. His perk is rarely used properly even on WP Taka, the speed boost is typically not there and CP Taka usually just runs in with 0 stacks. His Mortal wounds don’t do much if his team doesn’t capitalize on them - and mortal wounds are a common thing now. His Kaku does not make him indestructible, read the text again. Its a heal + stealth + cancels really, really easily. Meaning you can negate his heal right off the bat. Oh, and his Ult is definitely a gap closer for WP, but its his damage source for CP. Its decent as a burst but its way too long a cooldown for a gap closer. Koshka, Glaive,

If he’s so OP, then why is he typically MID TIER in win rates? Here. Go look. https://vainsocial.com/vgmeta/hero
Sort by win rate. Try it at several tiers. I used Worthy Foe, Hotness, and Vainglorious. Because if we want an ACCURATE sampling we check many numbers, not just our own games. Guess what? Among those 3 tiers, Taka shows up the best in Hotness 3v3 Ranked - at a whopping 7th place. Yeah. Big deal.

I checked T4,7, and 10 3v3 Casual, Ranked, and 5v5 Casual. Because the brawl modes are not reliably indicative of a basic hero’s kit viability. Aside from the one blip around Hotness, Taka is literally middle of the pack in every other sampled win rate check. So no, the numbers alone prove he is not “OP”.

You don’t even need a strong CC composition to beat him. You don’t even need VISION. That’s right. I said it. You can beat Taka in 5v5 pretty easily if you build a modicum of defense and stick with your team instead of wandering alone all over the enemy map. If he’s in the area stick to your group and blow him up when he reveals himself. He typically doesn’t 1 shot you unless your team has fed him all game. This means your team should be able to blow him up as soon as he reveals himself. No, this is not hard to accomplish - pretty much everyone considers Taka the prime target when he shows up.

So IF Taka manages to 1 shot one of your carries he typically dies anyway, meaning at best he accomplishes a 1 for 1 trade. Which is ok, except that that is his best. Unless your team is constantly feeding him solo kills?

So in 5v5 he is clearly not over powered - you literally just have to tag him with ONE AOE ability somewhere in the chain of events to block his Kaku. Its not hard. In 3v3 he is “more” of a problem which is why his star ranking is a super OP 7th place in Hotness. Even there, he provides 0 actual help to his laner, and he lacks the ability to take out a lot of enemies - Alpha, Rona, Reim, Krul, are all pretty strong picks and counters at the moment. Baptiste, Ardan, Catherine, Grace, Fortress, and Lyra all make his day harder as well. Even in the arena in which assassins are favored, he falls behind Fortress, Alpha, and Krul.

Logically he is not OP. Win rate wise he is not OP. So no, he’s not OP.

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26

Truly excellent post, @Magmaw. Thank you for actually checking the available data.

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27

taka op bc he op
(30 characters)

28

No taka is op. He buy 3 SG and no matter how much shield you have he will 1 shot you.

29

The increased prevalence and effectiveness of mortal wounds has mitigated his healing. PS and SF are pretty ubiquitous.

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30

If he gets 3 SG stop feeding, it takes a lot of gold to build that much offense unless you are feeding him. Build SH and watch his damage get reduced and you then finish him off because with so much offense he will have minimal defense.

31

As @TheCopyCat and @Magmaw there is no evidence to suggest Taka is OP - if anything the evidence seems to lean the other way.

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32

O hecc so us Tako mains are safe. You hear this @Gatorrex???

33

no u

also late game u can have 3 sg

34

But yeah I guess u were just against rlly good Takos. They are usually able to maneuver very well if well-practiced and it can make them hard to kill.

35

And? What will you build other than 3 SG? Where is cooldown? Where is defense? What about counterbuilding? You can build 3 SG but I won’t care about you cause you have no cooldown and I buy a husk to negate your damage and then burst you down

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36

I get the feeling FreeLies wasn’t entirely serious about his 3 SG comment. He could have been, but I suspect not xD

To elaborate on some of the unsaid points from my earlier post -

Taka is strongest in 1v1 scenarios where he has time to engage and disengage allowing him to achieve a drastically higher DPS than his enemies in the short window of engagement. This is basically the same as Reza and Koshka but more extreme in difference.

So Taka is strongest when he is able to C+A+B and then run off into the jungle, then dive you again repeatedly. This makes him at best a “tie” vs anyone, but he can’t necessarily kill them. Squishies are screwed if they are not helped in time though. So its quite possible to play into his strengths, but if you focus on teamfights it is hard for him to safely have any impact. In this regard, WP Taka is probably better tbh.

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37

I’d only say that evidence is subjective in this case if your determining it by play & win rate. That’s like saying Grumpjaw (more specifically his A) isn’t OP because of his win rate or tier. I’m not talking about your general Taka, and the data is skewed because so many people pick Taka at lower tiers. I’m talking about a good Taka, that knows what they’re doing. It’s little different than the potential of a Grumpjaw, or a Reza, or any underplayed hero or overplayed hero. I don’t base things on data only: it’s a poor way to make judgements if data doesn’t include or exclude certain metrics.

Now, in real world play, a good Taka is going to have good pierce, good health or defense, and good cooldown. He’s going to single out enemies out of position and use every one of his abilities, probably be CP. He’s going to run under turrets every 5 seconds to get a gank & heal that HP back with his abilities, by midgame, and because of his abilities, a good Taka’s snowball potential is massive. His kit is loaded because no hero besides maybe Alpha has that much self sustain built into their kit, and Alpha doesn’t have a blatant invincible nor invisibility, and regardless of Alpha’s data, we know how people feel about Alpha, justified or not. That not even Alpha has that much in her kit is saying something.

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38

Every hero can be a monster in the right hands. What you describe can be done for every single hero and massively depends on the enemy too as good players won’t let you do your play and cut you out even if you are strong. :wink:

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39

@Gatorrex what is your winrate vs competent enemies in standard mode as Taka?

40

But there arent any competent enemies

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