When you defy the odds and the game literally goes out of it's way to make you lose

Vainglory Archive The Salt Mine
#1

Had a game as Ishtar after coming back and my San went afk and my Koshka played like someone who never played a video game before like literally just doing their own thing and not listening to what I say, essentially playing like an easy AI which sounds harsh, but if you were to watch the game you’d agree. My Cath, SAW, and I were hard carrying a 3v5 game and almost won if it were not for the fact that at the end of the game San’s AI literally stopped working completely and he actually went afk, essentially losing 1 player for good which could have changed how the game ended since the fights were generally even despite the handicaps my team suffered. My team deserved that win and the game stole it from us >:(

Oh and the enemy team had an Adagio who seemed to know what he was doing, a Leo, and a Warhawk…so yeah

On the plus side Ishtar is SUPER HECCING FUN

#2

Ishtar is fun because is busted beyond believe.

#3

Ofc. Busted is fun :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#4

*as long as it’s on your team it’s fun

4 Likes
#5

Honestly no, Ishtar just has a super fun well designed kit. If anything ishtar is most fun early mid game before her totally busted ult dwarfs her actual playstyle.

She just has really satisfying abilty set that just feels cool to use. The multitudes of way to position and use her abilities makes it feel like you always have agency over your success more so than other heroes.

#6

Really? Well designed? Have I to repeat what I said in the other thread? Her kit may be fun, but is not well designed. Destroying her blades is not a viable option, and her ult concept is not good for the game: she is either OP or weak, that’s not good designe.

1 Like
#7

That’s why he specifically mentioned that her busted ult dwarfs her actual playstyle lol

#8

Which is part of the kit, reason why she is not well designed. He said that she is most fun in early, not that she is well designed except her ult.

The difference: by saying what he said you are saying that she only needs number changes, not that her ult is bad by concept, which is my point.

I hope now everything is clear, so you understand why his comment about the ult has nothing related with her designe

1 Like
#9

I do think they should change the ult by instead of spawning new swords, maybe it could bolster the swords’ defenses during the duration significantly. That way she still needs to set up, but her swords are not instantly killed when empowered while allowing counterplay. Maybe even remove the sword tether on her ult, so her swords do not disappear when she moves too far away from them until her ult ends. It could also, instead of spawning new swords, cast an aoe by every sword currently out on the field and bolster their defenses. There’s a lot you could do with her ult

1 Like
#10

Ishtar is just broken. Her ult is a complete joke. All you can do is run. She will melt through your health and even with hotfixed vamp, I have yet to see someone beat an ult-popped Ishtar. At this point atlas plus mortal wound plus team might be the only way to snuff her out.

2 Likes
#11

I prefer our omnipotent saviour… The Ban! That’s the only real counter I’ve found so far.

I don’t really consider cc a counter because she isn’t particularly vulnerable to cc and cc counters everyone.

Jokes aside, the fact that she doesn’t really care about losing the blades it’s a bad design IMO.

#12

I don’t carry much so excuse me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t characters like Barton, lance, and Leo where they have multihit AAs be a counter to Ishtar? I mean her blades are practically sitting on top of each other so wouldn’t the be destroyed easily

Also does Vox’s bounces affect ishtars blades like they do with petal?

#13

Honestly the whole, respawn living blade thing is dumb. Ishtar is all about positioning and late game her Blades are tanky enough against enemies.

If you end up losing all you blades and HAVE to ult to just to regain them, thats you fault. Her ult is a get out of jail card for bad players that cant position well.

But it doesnt really matter when your double empowered basic attacks deal 2x the damage that all four blades would do. Hence the reason why people just stack :vgitem_dragonseye: then pop ult and stutterstep everyone to death. NO BLADES NEEDED.

Just remove the respawn and redistribute the amount her AAs does back into her Blades damage and Im fine with her. :easter_happy_1:

Exactly.

1 Like
#14

The problem is that even if you work towards killing the blades, she can just activate the ultimate and all you’ve done gets wasted. To make it worse, Lance isn’t that good as WP right now so he can’t really kill the baldes and both baron and vox are out of the meta, so they don’t really help.
For Leo you can’t waste your abilities on the blades, and his passive (AoE) isn’t meaningful.

@RiseChu I would like if they do it so the strength of the ultimate depends on the blades consumed so that she can actually be punished for losing the blades instead of having the C as an out of jail card.

So far she offers 0 virtually no counterplay and even less room for outplay with her attacks being undodgeable.

2 Likes
#15

Another big fat issue is her blades are ridiculously strong. No matter how much wp you do, it will always take 4 hits just to take out ONE blade! B R O K E N

Who designed that, I have no clue. They ALSO gain 25% of ishtar defense. This is important in the point i’m about to bring up.

They take full damage from cp, but this built in bonus defense makes them super annoying. It counters the already low list of potential counters.

Taking into account the speed of which you can repos blades, their hp and defense, you need cp aoe that is super fast. Cp baron doesn’t work, too slow. Vox can work if they don’t move their blades back but it’s weak at best. I’m thinking anka would probably be a decent pick but for some reason she was nerf murdered a while ago???

So yeah.

#16

I say well designed because with a tiny amount of tuning she will have (and already does have) one of the most fun and satisfying kits in the game to use. It’s just so cool to juggle moving your blades in as weapons, and keeping them back for DPS.

Again, her ult really disrupts that, but I’m sure that will be handled with the next patch. She literally just came out.

#17

Like Warhawk was? Leo? Miho? Cain? She will be balanced… in about 2 years.

:frowning:
I’m starting to hate shinkaigan. I thought zekent and Sonata were bad at balancing, but Shinkaigan is in a whole new level.

1 Like
#18

I don’t think you understand the problem her ult has. It doesn’t need number fix, it needs a change.

#19

I think I do understand the problem with her ult. It needs a change, but nothing that requires redoing anything about the ability.

One solution would be to remove the blade summoning mechanic altogether, but I do feel that kind of hurts the theme of her kit a little. I would make it grant full charges to her A in stead to maintain the big replenishing comeback it is supposed to be

#20

this won’t solve anything: ishtar has to be enought strong to survive against the enemy laner, but her ult has to increase her power significant becuase is a “long cooldown” ultimate, making her OP and unbeatable when using her ult, which is just plain bad design. However, if they balance her while using her ult, then she would be very weak most time. Her ult increases damage, move speed and gives lifesteal; is just buffs and more buffs, there is no way you can make her balance; not only that but also her ult eliminates the little counterplay she has (deleting her blades).

Again, she is poorly designed: incoherent habilities, busted numbers…