The problems with VG (And possible solutions)


#1

So here in the forums I know that a lot of you do have quite a lot of gripes with the current state of the game. I am opening this thread so we can all list our current grievances in an organized format, figure out what causes them (when applicable), and discuss solutions. My hope is to get as many grievances out of the way to put these posts up in Reddit where most of the community resides.

So the BIGGEST problem I see with VG is the player base. Dodging is still rampant, trolling is still too prevalent, Smurfs are everywhere, boosted players in high tiers, etc etc. Another problem is the usually busted MM which can ruin ranked matches for some players who are not god tier or partying with their god tier friends. Also, the most important problem I feel is the speed in which these issues are being handled.

Dodging:
For this the solution is simpler than the others. Allow players maybe 2 dodges (Wanna give at least some leeway for certain situations tbh cause some people troll so hard in draft) before they lose elo (scaling with their rank to make dodging at high ranks more punishing if abused) and maybe at 3 or 4 dodges you get LPQ. This could reset after a certain number of completed ranked/casual (not brawl) games, so like 15 or so. The elo loss was implemented before, but that seems to have been removed for some reason. Also, implement the mechanic from league that lets you choose your role before queuing up so that allies have to worry less about their roles being taken and stuff, which can help reduce dodging.

Trolling:
This is more of a job for customer support, so maybe punish trolling harder. Maybe make the first offense of trolling (With damning evidence) a day ban with a 3 game LPQ afterwards and have those punishments scale up. Trolling is one of the worst things you can do in a game, so it should be heavily punished. However, even with this LPQ is too easy to get out of since you can brawl out of it, so they could make it so that brawl modes DON’T COUNT FOR LPQ!!! You need to play casual to get out of it. If SEMC acts upon this and implements these changes the amount trollers will go down HEAVILY!!!

Smurfs:
Honestly, there is no easy way to deal with smurfing at all. THIS is probably an issue that can be discussed throughout the community more as it really sucks for new players to get absolutely stomped on by tier 4 pros.

MM:
In ranked, DO NOT allow teams above a 1 or maybe 2 gap skill tier difference to play with each other. Also, bring back restricted queue so t9s can’t party with t7s or something in ranked. Please. I feel so bad for the t6 teams going up against my 5 mans ._.

Weed Out the Boosted Players:
I feel that many POA players kinda feel a bit…boosted, so maybe once a YEAR our skill tiers can reset like the old times instead of every season. This will prevent the annoying grind of having to climb back up from the bottom every few months while also keeping each skill tier as balanced and accurate as possible. The skill tier reset could be designated for any specific season, so maybe Spring since it’s right after Winter, which is at the end of the year.

SEMC’s Speed:
Let’s be real here. You guys are not handling many of these problems very quickly. Still many bugs and the grievances listed here have been long time issues that the community has called out for SEASONS (Although SEMC has tried certain things like restricting ranked play while in LPQ, so there are already some good changes currently). I get that developing a competitive game is demanding, but some of these changes do not take seasons to fix. This is costing you guys players and can kill the game if you don’t handle them in a timely manner due to new players feeling discouraged from playing due to getting stomped on by high and even mid tier smurfs in addition to veterans not being pleased with many changes (cough cough talents cough) or lack of solutions to lingering issues. You guys really need to step it up cause I REALLY want to see this game truly compete with League or DOTA and I especially want to see a large organic e-sports scene that can thrive on its own in this game.

Events:
Do not make events competitive all the time and maybe stick to the lower battlegrounds threshold with some more tweaking and keep it permanent. This can help players with and already high amount of essence have a better chance at actually using them by getting BP chests if they’re good at the game and allows new players to try and build up a collection. The glory cost should also be fair, but not crippling like the 10k cost is. Also, do more events like the Summer Finale. Events that are non-competitive (No leaderboards is what I’m saying), f2p friendly, and have rewards that are worth it. However, don’t make them a few days long especially if they’re grindy. Give the casual players a chance at least.

Overall Communication:
You guys keep telling us you take in the feedback, but currently you do not have much to show when it comes to taking action upon it, which also goes back to your speed. The ambassador program is a great step in the right direction, but currently only time will tell whether or not you execute it successfully. You need to make sure you keep disgruntled customers at ease with issues like these.

Problem With the Overall Community:
Another big problem can also be the community itself. Of course, there are members that discuss instead of demand, but I see plenty of players that only complain (Keep complaining about talents though :wink: ). The easiest fix here is to just do stuff like this where we discuss solutions to our problems instead of constantly hound SEMC all the time with no substance, though SEMC does need to work on some long time issues like bugs. Additionally, if the community as a whole discussed solutions for problems such as map balance, can you imagine just how helpful that could be for SEMC if they took the good ideas for future reference from a decently sized community? You don’t need to be a professional to have good ideas (Professionals implement those ideas :wink: ). One great post that should be a benchmark for how the community should discuss the CAUSE of certain problems is the recent post by @ThePinkOtter (Yeah that nerd) which gives a detailed perspective for seasoned players, so everyone understands where each side comes from. If the community just kinda calms down and slows down the amount of complaints all over the place SEMC may become more active in the community like some (former) devs such as Niv was (hopefully). Also, we should be a bit less dramatic with some features like the recent hat controversy when they did not seem as intrusive as some players feared (Though the party hats still feel weird outside of Clownwalker), so we should wait for more details sometimes :sweat_smile: (Talents still succ tho).


#2

They need a holiday.
or another project.
or some team bonding.
or all of the above.

I sense a lost of passion, but i could be wrong. maybe they’re just used to a casual approach to everything. it’s too hard to tell from an outsider’s perspective.

speed isn’t everything, if they make up for it in quality.
Maybe it’s a simple lack of experience in problem solving.

We ARE talking about software here. it’s a game. a bunch of code and data stringed together to work on multiple devices. What I’m trying to point out here is: all this data is easily transportable to anywhere in the world.

Maybe they just need to outsource their problem solving. it could be a project for a budding young programmer fresh out of university, which would cut down the cost. They could even make it a project for an entire programming class.

they can work out all the legalities and possible ways to safeguard it from hacking (which is the biggest concern with outsourcing).

Also, this is kinda admitting they suck at doing their job, which is a huge blow to their pride. there’s also nothing to stop somebody making copies, keeping it and trying to hack it in their spare time.

if they’re good enough, future updates will have security measures in place to prevent hacking.

Just a thought. We ain’t getting any younger.


#3

good luck with the long queues.

The DD bug of Samuel is still there rip.
I completely agree with all you’ve said.


#4

To be honest that bug isn’t that bad… compared to what we already got. Which is sad. My point is he can still use his empowered As. But stuff like Alpha and GJ As don’t do anything sometimes. Hit but don’t do damage or slow. Grace with her permanent B up, Churnwalker having something chained from across the map and you see him no matter where he is (in 3v3). Honestly don’t know how these things can be still in the game for so long.


#5

Here’s what I think are the problems in the game for me.

Warning: Opinions 100%, Research 0%, Made on the Fly 95%.

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  1. Too many game modes that are lengthy.

To me, some games go on for too long, even Battle Royales to a certain extent. Understandable, given this game is a MOBA and shortening it might cheapen the MOBA experience. But I feel like that’s not the main issue to talk about here.

What I want as a resolution for this problem is:

  • Reduce the main game modes to only 3v3, 5v5 and Blitz. Give them both Casual and Ranked modes, with Blitz Casual mode being a no Talent mode.
  • Cut down Bot Matches to only having Bot Matches for Blitz (with Talents) only.
  • Keep Practice Mode for 3v3 and 5v5 maps.

The reasoning I can give for this suggestion is:

  • Cuts down the choices of ques that players have so that they’ll populate and diversify the available modes.
  • In relation to that, enable matchmaker improvement.
  • Cuts down game size a little bit.
  • Reduce chances of game modes being abused for farming things (not much anyway).

As you probably notice, Battle Royale (BR) is not present. I suggest removing it, and here are the reasons why:

  • It’s randomness at times for very imbalanced comps. It’s what makes it a pain and fun at times.
  • A lot of players dodge it and do not get punished most of the time if not at all. This builds up the mentality of dodging being not as punishing as well as making players seek the ideal composition, which goes against the spirit of Battle Royale which is randomosity.
  • It isn’t a quick game mode. Sometimes, it can go even as long as a 3v3 match.
  • It doesn’t teach the same strategy used in the other game modes. BR has a very different strategy that has to been employed to maximise chances of winning.
  • It doesn’t feel rewarding to play. Even the Spoils of War doesn’t give much even if you go for a long BR match :confused:

Anyway, that’s that for this section.

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  1. Imbalance in Talent balance, leading to certain heroes appearing with the same Talent again and again and again…

Self-explanatory really. Some Talents are really good and strong without being too oppressive, but some Talents just dominate with very few drawbacks. This leads to a very stale meta in Blitz, which I find boring and discourages diversity and just trying out any hero a player wants.

Solution? I would like if SEMC just aggressively go after OP Talents. Not nuke them to the ground, but at least make them useable without having too much dominance.

Preferably, but most unlikely; is the complete overhaul of Talent balance. I have tons of suggestions that can be done, each tailored to the specific Talent.

We shall see what they’ll do in the coming patch I suppose. Hopefully, Idris Rare and Kestrel Rare get tweaked.

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  1. Still a little bit of cluttered Hero Tab U.I.

The overall appearance when one tabs into that section is ok. It’s when one tabs on a hero is what I have a bit of an issue with.

Why does tabbing a hero displays a sub tab with skins and Talents when we have a dedicated tab for those in the same main section? I feel like they pushed that section a bit too early or just didn’t have time to tweak that U.I. section a bit more.

Simple solution, get rid of those sub tabs.

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That’s all for now I think. I’ll bring up what other grievances when they pop in my head.


#6

Oh, one more thing I have a complaint about is the cost of upgrading Talents and the number of coins required to level up from one to the next.

Of course, a simple re-balancing and cost reduction are all that is needed, and I have made some suggestions.

Note that anything with (*) means it’s a strange disparity in the consistency of the values.


#7

I don’t consider talents to be a big problem, it’s not the main mode so whatever. The problem is that the main modes are horrible right now due to trolls, AFKs, dodgings, boring meta, queue times…


#8

Yeah, the Talents part is just me nitpicking.

I had had a suggestion lined up to hasten 3v3 a lot if you recall my post on Reddit.

Not gonna repeat it here since it’s pointless, though a 10 minute Kraken push I feel would be pretty neat, just saying.


#9

It would make it more of a brawl mode than a ranked one, something that as I said in that thread too I didn’t like.


#10

Yep.

When I was making those suggestion, I though that it’ll be ok considering a few things:

  • 3v3 was shoved out of the e-sports scene.
  • It was a bit stale.
  • Blitz & Battle Royale were either to short or RNG dependant.
  • I thought 5v5 will took away most of those playing 3v3.

Turns out it didn’t quite happen as I had expected.


#11

Which didn’t happen, it’s still the second most played mode, too much to be destroyed. Also if it gets destroy I will leave so… don’t destroy it please.


#12

Mhm, I understand.

I like 3v3 too. It’s just that ut has been rather stale lately, and I missed the time when we had the interchangeable miners.

If they bring that back with good tweaks, I feel that’ll make the map as whole a lot more interesting again, that’s all.


#13

I still love playing 3v3, it’s IMO more interesting just because it’s very mechanics demanding. I prefer the way it is rn to having those minion miners.


#14
  • Fix the matchmaker by getting rid of trio queue.

  • Remove the queue reset when 1 player doesn’t accept or dodoges, there is 9 players ready no need to wait another 7 minutes in queue just find an additional player in the same elo.

  • Fix the meta, get rid of the gold funneling strategies and create a meta with an actual lanning phase.

  • Fix the disync, the sliding, the teleporting.

  • Stop introducing noob friendly features that makes the game easier

  • All of the above can be fixed by selling the game to a company that will actually make vainglory great.


#15

We need a blacklist as well. After downvoting someone for three games straight a blacklist option appears where you can stop that player specifically from being on your team, but can be on the enemy team. It’s extremely annoying that sometimes to win a game you just have to tilt your opponent.


#16

:laughing::sweat_smile::rofl::joy:

aint that the truth.

We can go on & on & on about possible solutions, but it requires actual ACTION. ya know, moving those fingers and stressing those brains.

lol. Laughed so hard to this.


#17

Well… I guess if there were so many companies out there making awesome mobile games (and MOBAs in particular), we’d be playing them already and what SEMC do with Vainglory would matter a lot less.


#18

Lmao … +1 for this


#19

Tencent ? 30303030303030303030


#20

For one, Tencent is a publisher more than a development studio. They have released two mobile games (under their own brand), AoV and PUBG.

I don’t play AoV, but they wanted to add stats with impact on gameplay to sold items the second patch after PUBG’s release (a.k.a. p2w).
Literally the first line of the Play Store’s “What’s New” section, intended for information about the latest patch, reads: “Exclusive Pan 75% off”
The Royale Pass is perhaps the most obfuscated shit I’ve ever come across. It takes an excel sheet to figure out what rewards you will be able to get after purchase. If you manage to complete all tasks, which you cannot see for upcoming weeks. [pls kill 10 players in 1 match lel]
There’s been terrible bugs all over (though they do a better job of fixing them, so far) and cheaters are running rampant.

Now, don’t get me wrong - I am currently enjoying PUBG and won’t be playing VG come next update, but if we apply the same standards to Tencent for a moment that we hold SEMC to, they are failing completely.