Hero Types in VG

[Guest_78]

@TheInterpreter

Well the weaker stats they are forced to have hurts in other ways like having a proper cp bruiser or cp melee hero in general.

Why? alpha was melee and was cp. Reza is cp, Anka is cp, Koshka is cp, Baptiste is cp.

@TheInterpreter

With energy being the deciding factor, you could limit hero ability availability and AA availability by controlling energy pool and regen.

Okey, lets see vox: he deals cp damage, so if his AA started costing energy he would basically be useless, what would you do?

@TheInterpreter

As for Baron, that’s the point: it’s hard for him to be a hypercarry in a fun way because he is ranged and aoe.

I find him quite fun to play.

@TheInterpreter

And any time he gets too strong he isn’t fun for the opposing team

No hypercarry is fun to play against in late game.

@TheInterpreter

because he is ranged aoe.

So is celeste and Varya.

@TheInterpreter

And I would do this specifically to Baron because right now Baron as a good hero isn’t fun for anyone.

Thast opinnion based, for me its fun both CP and WP.

@TheInterpreter

Since his usage is focused around his power, and since as an aoe ranged he is inherently more powerful than every other type of hero in this game, he has to be nerfed, has to be slow and weak until late game, and if he’s a good baron, the enemy team has to be decimated by him at that point, or else he isn’t worth it as a hero.

And the difference between him and any late game scaling mage is?

@TheInterpreter

I would nerf him by making him need more skill, with more average power and a power spike

So rip another hypercarry.

@TheInterpreter

ather than massively weak & a struggle at the beginning, and masively strong and simplistic at the end.

The definition of a hypercarry.

[TheInterpreter]

All the heroes you mention struggle with being balanced while remaining useful and being able to be used as intended. That’s the point.

As for Vox, I’d give him minimal AA energy cost and low to moderate ability cost, with a moderate energy pool and somewhat low energy regen. That way, the items he buys can improve his energy regen and energy pool to moderate and high respectively, and by endgame he can still spam his abilities as he can now, but EVENTUALLY he’d have to back out. (AND If I could REALLY change him what I’d do is I’d buff his defense a little, change his resonance to be an ability that weakened with your distance from Vox, changed each bolt to set a minor slow on hit, and his B to be a slightly better slow, ult to be an ability where he channels and sends out a pulse that snaps all enemies out of resonance, but all enemies still in range take damage scaling off at the furthest ranges and take status effects of increasing intensity nearest to Vox. The closest enemies take the most damage, are stunned momentarily, silenced, and slowed, the enemies further out are only silenced and slowed snd weaker, but to compensate, these effects would decay more rapidly BUT that’s off topic.)

I’m not saying Baron is not fun to play. I’m saying when you’re having fun playing him, everyone else usually isn’t having fun playing you. And when you’re not effective with him, everyone else usually already is to some degree. Celeste and Varya also struggle to be balanced as they are both also massively difficult to play against late game for everyone, whereas hypercarries without aoe don’t get that designation: ranged hypercarries with aoe can still beat them, and the guy next to them. Late game scaling mages that don’t have aoe? Not a lot. That’s why they’re not fun to play against when their aoe is powerful. Big difference between a Baptiste Ult and a Celeste Ult. For that matter, big difference between a Celeste A and a Kestrel A when it comes to teamfights.

If you’re not an assassin, you shouldn’t be a hypercarry. That’s the point. Hypercarry means you multikill quickly but you don’t have to do it all in one shot. That means you should be dying quickly as well or nerfed in some other way for balance purposes. AOE ranged hypercarries defeat this because if you’re aoe and ranged you should be nerfed to only have the ability to do it every once in a while or you should have some other weakness limiting you from multikilling any time you want, otherwise you alone are decimating the enemy team. A carry should be weak. That’s the point. Having range inherently makes you stronger. Having aoe inherently makes you stronger. Having power on top of that just makes it cheese unless that power is contained in some way, like Baron’s channel time for his ult and mortar air time. And he can still decimate scores of people by himself if he’s good late game, while having inherent advantages, making him inherently toxic if he’s built in a fun way for the actual player playing him, unless that player has to use skill, balancing the playinf field, which timing his mortars and his slow rocket speed is likely intended for, but the skill ceiling for them is disproportionate to the damage they do, which is why Baron is built so difficult to capitalize on until so late in the game and heroes like saw struggle to be balanced. And no, hypercarries that are simplistic to use should be simplistic to kill (like saw). Hypercarries that require skill should be given better means to defend themselves and great means of attacking but still be inherently nerfed in some way like defense or energy availability, since they usually need cooldown (like reza and anka should be). And they should still be easy to kill healthwise even if you need skill to get at their health (like taka and Baron with Jumpjets).

If you are none of those things you probably shouldn’t be a hypercarry or you’re probably not making the game fun for othe players in an inherently overpowered way.

[Guest_78]

@TheInterpreter

I’m not saying Baron is not fun to play.

@TheInterpreter

right now Baron as a good hero isn’t fun for anyone.

…

@TheInterpreter

I’m saying when you’re having fun playing him, everyone else usually isn’t having fun playing you.

Do you mean with or against me?

@TheInterpreter

whereas hypercarries without aoe don’t get that designation

An example of hypercarry without AoE?

@TheInterpreter

Not a lot.

None. Mages are supposed to have some kind of AoE (the late game ones).

@TheInterpreter

AOE ranged hypercarries defeat this because if you’re aoe and ranged you should be nerfed to only have the ability to do it every once in a while

I dont understand why.

@TheInterpreter

otherwise you alone are decimating the enemy team.

Thats what a hypercarry does, but the weakness is both their early game and being squishy.

@TheInterpreter

A carry should be weak.

No… or im missunderstanding.

@TheInterpreter

Having range inherently makes you stronger.

Reason why they are squishy.

@TheInterpreter

And no, hypercarries that are simplistic to use should be simplistic to kill (like saw)

Saw isnt a hypercarry. Also Baron is easy to kill if you have a counter. If not… then not, but like the rest of the heroes.

@TheInterpreter

Hypercarries that require skill should be given better means to defend themselves and great means of attacking but still be inherently nerfed in some way like defense or energy availability, since they usually need cooldown (like reza and anka should be).

Both of them are assassins, not hypercarries.

@TheInterpreter

And they should still be easy to kill healthwise even if you need skill to get at their health

And what hypercarry isnt?

All heroes that are strong in a certain timeframe are unfun to play against. The difference is that while Baron my be toxic, he is one of the heroes that offer more counterplay, but again, what hero isnt toxic when strong?

[TheInterpreter]

These heroes hsve built in weaknesses for a reason. And it’s not just in their stats. SAW can be considered one by late game due to his strength against teams by himself. So can the assassins for the same reason. Lots of heroes aren’t toxic against whole teams by themselves when strong.

[Guest_78]

@TheInterpreter

SAW can be considered one by late game due to his strength against teams by himself.

What strenght against teams by himself. Early game is when he is strongest, his late game is horrible.

@TheInterpreter

Lots of heroes aren’t toxic against whole teams by themselves when strong.

Im not talking against teams, im talking in general, because using he scenario against teams you use the strongest part of a AoE hero but the weakest of a single target hero.

[ThePinkOtter]

@Guest_78

Broken in 2, op in 1.

Past his release patch, Kensei wasn’t considered over powered in the professional scene. After the first nerf, he was considered a decent pick which could be used to counter late game full tank top picks and tanky teams in general. Since the second nerf he’s been barely seen at all, with people instead defaulting to ranged carries.

[Bobmax]

@Guest_78

No they arent. They are supposed to be balanced for 5v5.

They are supposed to be balanced for both. Not saying they are. Anyway you can’t compare them in different modes lol. It’s like me comparing Ringo to some LoL or Dota hero. It’s way too different.

@Guest_78

Broken in 2, op in 1.

Not really. Being strong and viable doesn’t always mean it’s OP or broken.

@Guest_78

Having a kit overstacked compared to any other hero. What works with her comparing doesnt work with others because they dont have that much tools

How does that matter though? She’s still a VG hero classified and working as a mage. You compare her to other heroes of same class. It’s like me saying Ringo doesn’t count as ADC because he’s too simple. Complicity doesn’t make a hero be a new class.

@Guest_78

His ult isnt spammable…

His ult isn’t and I didn’t mention it because of the damage though it’s good burst. I said ult because of it’s power and utility. His A is very spammable though especially with SSW. I actually just played Kensei for fun and his damage surprised me. It was actually really good. Especially when a teamfight happened dashing through everybody builds BP like crazy (yes I tried BP) and gives constant barriers. Can’t really say if he’s good as I played 1 game and I had bot hybrid glass cannon Lance so… yeah. My point is his AoE is incredible for a warrior.

[SideRaiderr]

He’s actually not that bad this patch.