Finally I and my friend (mostly my friend) have found out a SAW rework that will punish noobs

• Description: Heavy machine gunner who sacrifices accuracy for damage.

• Difficulty: Medium/Role: Carry/Position: Anti-Infantry Sieger/Weapon: Assault Machine Gun with an Intergrated Grenade Launcher/Energy Type: Energy.

• Stats:

+Health: 713 (+136 each level).

+Energy: 180 (+20 each level).

+Attack Speed: 200% (+5% per level).

+WP: 50 (+5 per level).

+Armor: 20 - 60 (+3.6 each level).

+Shield: 20 - 60 (+3.6 each level).

+Range: 6.6m.

+Movement speed: 3m/s.

• Perk: Spray and Pray:

-SAW’s basic attacks are now directional and will damage all enemies in their path and will collide with the first hero they hit.

-Each SAW’s basic attack will fire 6 consecutive bullets randomly in a 30° cone (3 randomly in the middle 15°, 3 in the outer 15° for the sake of consistency) that each deals 20% of his WP damage and the damage of any basic-attack effect is spreaded out evenly into 6 bullets.

-The closer the enemies are to SAW, the more likely the bullets will hit them (at point-blank range or if your hitbox is big he will deal full damage so beware)

-Each round will only deals 12.5% of SAW’s WP damage against structures and objectives.

-Moving while attacking will not stop SAW attacking but SAW will move 15% slower while attacking. Tap on the target a 2nd time or use a skill to stop SAW attacking.

• A: Roadie Run:

-SAW sprints & switches to a melee combat knife. If SAW stabs someone, he will deal bonus damage based on the target’s missing health and quickly rolls backward.

-Fully apply basic attack effects.

-Overdrive: SAW is immune to all negative effect while the ability is active.

+Range: N/A

+Energy Cost: 65.

+Cooldown: 10s.

+Base Damage: 20/50/80/110/140 WP damage +115% Weapon Ratio +200% Crystal Ratio.

% Missing Health: 10%/15%/20%/25%/30%. +2.5% Crystal Ratio.

+Speed Boost: 2m/s +1% Crystal Ratio.

• B: Suppressing Fire:

-SAW fires a hurricane of bullets in a set direction for 5s, damaging and suppressing enemies in its path while also slowing those who face toward the general direction of SAW.

-Suppress (Effect): Silences all directional skill.

-Deals damage in 10 instances, each every 0.1s.

-For every 0.5s Suppressing Fire is still active, the cooldown of Roadie Run is reduced by 10% and Mad Cannon by 2.5%.

-Reactivate this ability to cancel early.

-Overdrive: Also apply half the slow to those not facing SAW.

+Range: 12m/12m/12m/12m/14m.

+Energy Cost: 40/55/70/85/100.

+Cooldown: 20s.

Damage/Instance: 5/10/15/20/25 WP. damage +25% Crystal Ratio +5% Weapon Ratio.

+Slow: 20%/30%/40%/50%/60%.

• Ult: Mad Cannon:

-SAW loads his attached grenade launcher, causing his next attack to be a single massive shell that deals an empowered basic attack, CP damage and additional damage based on the target’s max health with extra basic attack range.

-Passive: Normal basic attacks deal additional 80% CP damage. Also, after every 4 basic attacks (24 small bullets), the 5th basic attack will be a smaller Mad Cannon shell, dealing an empowered basic attack with CP damage and additional CP damage based on the target’s missing health.

-Loading the active Cannon shell while the passive Cannon shell is chambered will make the second basic attack after that a passive Cannon shell.

-Max bonus attack range is 2.4 meters and max splash radius is 3.5 meters.

-The cooldown of Mad Cannon is fixed, thus unaffected by cooldown reduction.

-Instead, each successfully hit bullet will reduce the cooldown of this ability by 0.1s. Passive Mad Cannon shells will reduce it by 2.5s.

-The Mad Cannon shell will fully apply basic-attack effects on the primary target and is unaffected by Spray and Pray spread.

+Range: N/A.

+Energy Cost: 50/75/100.

+Cooldown: 60s.

+Active Mad Cannon empowered basic attack damage: 150%/150%/165%.

+Passive Mad Cannon empowered basic attack damage: 130%/130%/135%.

+Active Crystal Damage: 40/60/80 +200% Crystal Ratio.

+Passive Crystal Damage: 20/30/40 +100% Crystal Ratio.

+% Max Health: 10% +2.5% Crystal Ratio.

+% Missing Health: 5%

+Splash Radius: 1.5 +0.5% Weapon Ratio.

+Bonus Attack Range: 0.4m (+0.5% Crystal Ratio).

The reason behind these changes that SAW is kinda UP in high tiers like T7 and above but he’s a menace for newbies so I wanna turn this completely around. Now SAW will benefit more from good positioning and bad positioning will be punished a lot more. The spread system will make sure that he’s easily countered if you’re constantly moving or at his max range… However, if you stand still, get too close to him or your hitbox is too big, you’re dead meat since the damage is bumped up a whole lot.
Btw, the reason behind these changes are to make his weapon more realistic, true-er to its real life counterpart. His weapon is a KAC ChainSAW and you can check its stats online (check the stats in trustworthy pages about guns). The LMG is quite light, about 3.5-4kg unloaded (compared to the lightest M134 Minigun at 19kg unloaded, it’s more than 5 times lighter). It can fire without needing to Spin Up like the in-game SAW and it can mount an underbarrel grenade launcher, allowing it to launch grenades, however, one at a time since the GL is single action unlike the in-game Mad Cannon.


% Miss Chance



If you don’t know, some MOBAs do have miss chance beside crit chance.

the only way to deal with SAW is to delete him from the game.

no but honestly, I don’t think you can get rid of SAW’s stacks without changing him completely. also the RNG of miss chance isn’t gonna make him any more skill based to play, meaning he’ll still be a noob hero. Skilled players don’t want to have to deal with RNG.


Idk why SEMC made SAW. Half of the devs hate him and they made SAW which for me it’s essentially WTF? Why would you make a hero that you hate?

Real noobs will get pawned if they don’t move. Wannabe noobs won’t since they are gitting gud so SAW won’t be that much of a threat. Pro vs SAW, it’s very 50-50 since SAW isn’t a slow moving ball of lard anymore and his new CP Ult-A combo will 1 shot any laner but he has that miss chance so you can dodge him.

How many of these have a thriving competitive scene?

DOTA does have bruh.

This text will be blurred

C’mon let them enjoy thing like when 4 abilities is harder than 3 abilities but emm the game they called competitive and what Vainglory is need to follow is Farming simulator

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DOTA has it already integrated into the game, and in numerous other MOBAs, it has often caused numerous balance issues. DOTA is fine because they can design their whole item system and cast around it, but in VG, it’s not going to fly.

Plus it doesn’t change the fact that if you randomly get all your AAs dodged in any MOBA it’s going to suck.

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Well, since I don’t want SAW to wreck noobs so I add the feature. Beside, his basic attacks are now directional which means that they can hit something else.

So SEMC has a team of more than a hundred people now - I am curious about the evidence you offer for more than half of those people hating SAW?

And in general, this looks like an utter coding nightmare that will never happen, and a huge pest to balance as well.


Yes and DOTA2 is a port of a custom map in a game that had it and the map and heros were built around it

Oh I forgot the last part: in the balancing and hero design. Technicians and Customer Support staffs don’t count. Niv, Zekent, Beard said this straight up in a stream and the leagues. If I’m not wrong CEO said this too. The only one likes him is SugarVenom. Tbh, just straight up delete him. If you don’t like him, just straight up delete him. I can take that. I don’t like another Tachanka from R6S in VG.

Just because developers dislike a character doesn’t mean they are willing to alienate player who like them. Saw is balnced pretty well as he is once you take in account of the playerbase for him. @idmonfish has went on about him before in another post.


Uh how many counters does SAW have? Uh lemme count: Baron (CP hard vs both paths scaled, WP scaled vs WP, hard vs CP), Baptiste (CP soft vs WP), Catherine (hard vs both paths), Celeste (hard vs WP, 50/50 vs CP), Flicker (medium vs WP, hard vs CP), Glaive (medium vs CP), Grumpjaw (now hard vs everyone not only SAW), Grace (medium vs CP), Idris (hard CP vs WP, hard WP vs CP), Joule (CP hard vs both paths, WP medium vs WP), Kestrel (WP hard vs WP, CP medium vs CP), Lance (hard vs CP), Lorelai (hard), Phinn (medium vs CP), Reim (hard vs CP), Ringo (medium CP vs WP), SAW (hard CP vs WP), Samuel (hard vs WP), Skye (hard CP vs WP), Varya (hard). And how many pro SAW players are there because in my knowledge it’s less than 10 (a couple of pros I know are LouisVuittonDon, DNZio, ttigers, Hami, MQuan9999 (in my country) and I’m not pro SAW. I’m good at him but not pro). He literally gets countered by 1/3-1/2 of the hero pool.

Again you gotta take in account who is the main playerbase. You understand hard counters are just that not true counters until you get skilled which then can be said is more skill level counter than anything. A limited number of pro saw players doesn’t mean he is bad could ultimatley mean he has a dramatic learning curve. He is easy to use but extremley hard to master.

And they call him noob hero. LMAO.

Yes because he is easy to use and easy to be decent at, but decent doesn’t mean master it has a gradual learning curve to a point than dramatically spikes. Because of this spike he doesn’t make it far with being a main pick in higher tiers while the early on easy to use and be decent at is loved by people who are new

His power/tier curve is a U-shape curve.