I wanted to play petal so I thought about playing her in 3v3 casual , I picked her and one of the players said ok in the chat and dodged , like what makes you dodge a casual or brawl match ?!
I think I read a pro player AMA and he said this
The secret of being vg gold is to dodge the game when you can’t play heroes you are good at or when your allies make stupid choices in the draft process. (this applies when playing solo ranked) Also, I personally know almost every single (insert team name) and other ex-professional team members so that helps as well when you party.
Then he said to people replying to him that’s dodging bad :
yeah you can keep playing with weird combinations and your tier will descend. haaha
Then :
yeah but take this into consideration;
everyone in EA 10s higher, when they solo rank, they dodge if enemies take atleast 2 op heroes that should be banned for sure.
don’t know how NA takes dodging but in EA we dodge if the comb is disadvantageous.
…
I played a game in t7 5v5 and enemy picked every single op hero while my team picked every single weak hero I didn’t dodge and lost the match easy , well I feel sometimes that this soloq vs party games are unfair especially adding bad banned heroes and bad picks to that , I think if every good player think about dodging they going to climb easy , thoughts .
I think you meant 3v3 ranked right ? And yes many players abuse the dodging system to climb that’s one of the many cheap techniques they’re willing to use.
Dodging is rampant, I can’t start a 5vs5 ranked for 30 minutes nowdays (in peak hours, EU, high t10 bronze/silver mmr paring). It’s combination of waiting, declines and ofc - 3 or 4 dodges in a row and almost always at the end of the draft when teams are clear. You can’t win the draft phase as if you do - someone of the enemy team dodges to not get in disadvantage in the game. I also personally am witness in chat how my teammates are discussing who will dodge and have “dodges left” to use.
They should change the system so there is LPQ and /no ranked/ on the first dodge, but with low timer and one game. Then quickly ramp up in another abuse if done soon after the first one and so on, i.e. the punishment to start from the first dodge while keeping it low for someone who disconnected or had another device/connection problem. Right now everyone knows t hat you need to dodge like 3-4 times in a really short period of time (let’s say a week) and then you will get punished for dodging… sooo, the discussion who will dodge if the team loses the draft - is here to stay and done in the high tiers.
Not just 3v3 ranked , people dodge less in 3v3 because of the long queue , but in 5v5 I see people dodging and calling the player who banned the heroes insults , well they actually banned bad heroes and first pick bad hero but I don’t see the reason to insult others , you just deal with it or like the pro said dodge .
Yeah I was watching Oswald stream recently and he has counts for win/loss/dodge , I heard that he got dodged 9 times in 1 hour but I don’t know if it’s true , like imagine wasting an hour drafting and dodging.
What I think is crazy is when people already in a party and they dodge , this is pushing to 100% win , like if you have the ability to fix a mistake or what we call a bad draft you can win every game especially if you are in a party , so as I said in my thread and the pro said , it’s understandable as a soloq player and questionable as a party , if the party going to dodge they put the soloq players in a disadvantage .
Yeah I know petal is considered trolling but if I can’t play her in casual when I can play her? , what if I want to play saw , like they are ok with going triple carry but picking petal or saw is a no no , why ?! , I actually see krul in casuals I personally think krul pick a troll pick he is super weak , so there is a high chance of facing a krul easy win , but they consider petal troll pick while krul an ok pick .
Because 3 carries have more chances of winning than a saw or petal, and they want to win. For your first question: sadly, nowhere. People don’t kindly accept a troll in their team, it’s a waste of time.
Krul is far stronger than them in 3v3. Not a good pick, but not a troll one either.
The reasoning behind that is: I’m gonna loose no matter what I do, so why I have to waste 15 minutes in a game I can’t win? Better dodge and queue again.
Ranked is a serious mode, so you are expecting people to play heroes that are good in the meta, not troll picks, so why anyone has to loose tier, play a lost and frustrating match for 15 minutes due to one player being troll?
I’m not defending this, because I won’t dodge… except if the troll starts trashing in the chat. But I understand why people do this.
It’s casual… love those players that try hard there, it’s literally funny. On top of that if we can’t play X hero even in casual, just delete that hero from the game… but they can’t, as people paid money for all those skins of petal for start.
I know how it feels, I for example enjoy a lot playing CP saw, but I can’t because of that. I just gave the reasoning behind the dodges, but that’s nothing new. Dodging in casual is stupid. There are tryhards everywhere.
Believe me, I end up a lot in that dodge circle for 20-30m and it’s frustrating to say the least. Waiting 30m staring at your screen to start a 15m one sided game 50% of the times?
Thats one of the reasons each month I play less and less. It takes forever to get to play a match, and even when you finally entree one the quality isn’t specially high.
If we exclude few really talented players, most VG silvers are there via party/trioq and as compromise duoq. And yes, they abuse the dodge “bad draft” save card a lot to achieve nearly 100% win rate. They also monitor who they play against and also on top of that if they see a name in their team on “important” position - even if the draft is good, sometimes dodge. I mean, they dodge almost every single time they feel the chances are not on their side.
Had recently a game with famous player, will not put names here, that literally complained about a single pick (that is not great, but viable, btw) and cried on chat why noone dodged (after in the draft chat requesting someone to dodge, I guess he was left out of dodges) and how he will lose, I will quote: “vs that noob” (referring to another known good player in the enemy team). At the end that player who picked viable, but not optimal pick - forfeit at the start from frustration and kinda forced and ofc insta surrender.
Edit: to add more - party always got really big advantage and if it’s from decent players that use voice comms - GL as soloq player. To clumb to VG silver as soloq you need to be good and play quite a lot and I mean A LOT… as you will lose a lot, because of bad players in your team + this is twice valid if you play mostly captain role. Most common thing is trioq and when no players - duoq silvers/high bronze. Frequently they use voice comms too and take key positions to help each another/got the carry potential.
This is also true, while sometimes you can be surprised by a troll pick that play insanely good that hero and pulls it off, it’s super rare… like 1 from 20 games with such a pick. Most of the time in the high tiers, you can tell if you will win/lose from the draft itself (or if it will be skill based as you are about the same “heroes strength avrg” in the draft). Ofc you can go wrong, but sadly most of the time you won’t.
This is mainly SEMC fault tbh… the meta the last few patches is quite stale (and 2-3 patches into 5vs5 release, tho it started to shrink prior the release with the changes for it) - not a lot of great heroes picks and a lot of bad ones. Back in the days (aham, 2.8) all the heroes and compositions could work and were played - great variety and in a sense - we had more heroes back then than now. I can’t count as a hero an image and stats in the menu that will never live up in the game world.
It was estimated here on the forums and I feel it’s true:
50% chance for totally one sided game, 25% chance for slightly unbalanced (but noticeable) game and 25% chance for a balanced one… well, I totally agree with that and it’s my observation too. 30m wait for a 75% chance of an unfair game. I consider also stopping playing that game as I wait too much, I literally wait atleast the same time as I play each day and it’s absurd… I don’t have that much free time to waste it like that.
But but… according to Sonata is one of the most balanced patches!!.. if this was true, then this wouldn’t be happening, since most heroes should be good picks… so, are you telling me that Sonata is wrong? What a surprise!!
I don’t want to point fingers or anything, but I really do think that @Nivmett did a lot better job… dunno what they are doing, maybe they are balancing for all tiers and takes stats from all tiers (and that is a mistake, even kids can tell you that competition based games are always balanced towards the pro scene with small exceptions)? I feel niv not only balanced the game better from the stats point, but also did a better job to keep the heroes fun to play (as he himself stated, that he also balance by how you feel the hero while playing him/how it feels to play against).
Not to mention that VG 3vs3 best patch 2.8, the last one before the changes for 5vs5, was his doing and perfectly balanced to the point that all heroes were really viable+fun to play in the high tiers and all kind of team compositions worked. After that 5vs5 released and I am sure right now he would had done a lot better job in balancing if he was with SEMC still, because at 5vs5 release they changed the game by so much every patch that it’s hard to balance at all + it’s super hard at start (initial balancing) to begin with (more so with that transition from 3vs3 and “we will balance the same for both 3vs3 and 5vs5” that was forced on him).
I don’t think what sonata said is accurate about the heroes themselves balanced he even said they don’t balance based on win rate only , dodging = bad balancing , if people dodge a lot it means the gap between heroes is big , and are they accepting a match after a several dodges because the match fair or the match onesided for them , or they run out of dodge chances ?!
And with dodges I guess people try to get a match by taking heroes don’t make others dodge , which means we are not seeing all the heroes played , we seeing what your team wants you to play , like in a 3v3 game the enemy locked Celeste and our laner responded with Malene ,he got roasted in the chat and the third player dodged , while they could accept a baron pick against Malene , there is a high counter play but still there is a space to out play , I agree high chance of losing but how people going to learn the lesson on not picking that hero if they don’t taste the counter play potential .
Because… while that player is learning, others are wasting 15 minutes to just loose elo. Most people I see dodging is because some picked a weak hero, not because counters and so. It’s only my personal experience though.
That’s what we have in rank: either tryhards that if something goes wrong they just dodge, or the “I don’t care” ones that troll because they don’t care about rank.
And the worst part is that both of them are “right”. The tryhard because the difference between a meta hero and a non meta one is huge so picking the non meta one is often asking for a lose. The other because there is actually no meaningful reward other than having that trophy, which at certain level everyone has so it doesn’t matter anymore.