Do we need a 'disable' in Vainglory?

So, firstly, I want to define what I mean by ‘disable’. It’s a term that can have many meanings, but what I’m defining as ‘disable’ in this case is “A crowd control effect which disables auto attacks”. This is a CC that generally isn’t well defined amongst other MOBAs, such as how it’s called ‘blind’ in LOL, but ‘blind’ can also mean literally reducing your vision range in that same game.

This is how the thread is going to work. I tell you my opinions about it CONCEPTUALLY, and then once I’m done, you can tell me and everyone else your opinions CONCEPTUALLY. This means we aren’t talking about including it in this current specific patch but as a general in all patches from this point onwards. So basically, I want everyone to use their knowledge of their meta in this game as a whole instead of the current 1-month window.

Let us begin.

WP and CP have been very distinctly different for a long time. WP is auto attacks and CP is abilities. That’s how we were taught these stats at the very beginning of this game in the tutorial, and for the most part, it has stayed that way, other than some exceptions that have popped up over the years. This inherently comes with its own advantages and disadvantages. WP damage is undodgeable, while CP damage is possible to avoid. WP characters have a much lower APM (Actions per minute. Imagine it as tap speed.) needed to reach maximum potential than CP characters. CP has the superior zoning, while WP has the superior anti-assassin ability. These differences are noticeable particularly in the most vanilla characters in both these types, such as Ringo and Celeste. This by itself isn’t a bad thing. Characters with variety, yay! The problem is that many WP carries can do what CP does better, other than AOE. WP Baron can zone just as well as a Skaarf can, and WP characters can deal just as much damage. We’ve seen that in the 3v3 meta, WP snipers have generally been the go-to for damage dealers, with mages being pushed into the Jungle.

Next on the list, items
CP items are all fancy, and they have tons of unique passives. CP over time, CD reductions when you hit abilities, bonus AA damage after a spell, ect. Their unique passives are generally what makes them strong.
WP items are… incredibly boring. I guess a case could be made of Breaking Point and Poison Shiv, but honestly, compared to the CP tree, it sucks. The most interesting passive (IMO) is on Bonesaw, and when have you seen Bonesaw last? Although their item unique passives are mostly low impact, there’s one thing WP has.
So many crits.
Just crits everywhere.
As in, two items that get built every game.

Just the mere existence of crits in the WP tree bring up a big issue. Since they’re so powerful for scaling carries, you can’t really give WP carries much more damage, or they’ll dominate the meta as the main DPS (although looking at the past, not having much outside BP and crits didn’t stop them). Imagine if a Captain bought Bonesaw and suddenly the 500 damage Ringo crits became 750, and he could still have 100% crit chance. Imagine if Tension Bow could scale. Gwen would literally be one shotting you even more in your games. Imagine if Serpents had no limit on healing and made every sniper a self-healing factory. Because of how oppressive crits are in VG, the WP tree is difficult to add items too, due to the concern that snipers could abuse them.

Plus, the fact that everyone builds Aegis doesn’t help either.

This screws over WP assassins and bruisers too. The item variety on characters such as Rona is either ‘Normal Rona’ or ‘Cheese Gimmik’, and it sucks to see. And you already know how I feel about WP assassins.

Finally, CC. CC hurts CP characters way more than WP characters. Silences are probably the best example. When a CP character gets silence, they lose a large majority of their kit. When a WP character gets silence, they still have their AAs. The least impacted are snipers, which the most impacted are mages, with bruisers somewhere in the middle since they generally are pretty ability reliant. Now, with the release of :b:ony, there is another type of CC that hurts CP characters more; taunts. Again, this follows the same pattern as above, where mages and bruisers are affected greatly, while snipers keep shooting (and stacking their BP).

What I’m trying to say is that the disparity between CP and WP has grown over time, with WP carries having tons of advantages over CP. Some may say that “that’s just how it works”. In other MOBAs, yes. It really does. ADCs in LOL scale with crit much harder than they do in VG, and they always have a position in bot. This is similar in many other MOBAs. My issue with it is that it REDUCES DIVERSITY IN TEAM COMPS. As a lover of characters such as Varya and CP Baron, I want to be able to be the carry of the team. Double CP carries is something that I find much more interesting to play than 1 of each, or Double WP. But if the meta calls for it, and I want to win ranked, there’s nothing I can really do.

I originally loved VG because of how diverse and fluid the meta was. It wasn’t stagnant and fixed like other MOBAs. But, with the introduction of :b:ony, SEMC seems to be taking steps towards being standard.

This is why I propose the ‘disable’. This type of CC is meant to hurt WP snipers. By disabling auto attacks, CP mages and bruisers can shine, using their much more interesting abilities (sorry Auto Attacks). By making WP snipers weaker through this way, you can add more interesting items to the WP tree for assassins and bruisers while still being confident that for 1-2 seconds, these snipers can be countered. Plus, it just feels right. If abilities get disabled through silences, shouldn’t AAs be disabled through something?

That’s me done. Hopefully, I managed to explain my point. TL;DR WP snipers are oppressive and are a problem in my eyes for the variety of the game, and need a type of CC to take them down a notch, especially considering the advantages they have over CP.

Alright, I’m turning off notifications and going back to Granblue.


So disable is to auto attack as silence is to skills?

That would make a much more interesting way to stop a Saw than Atlas Pauldron.

Can you imagine Tony taunt and another hero using disable? Forcing the enemy to walk towards Tony without harming him.

In a way Fear accomplishes this already but I still like the mechanic.


Disable is a great idea. I support it. However I don’t agree with your premise on WP being better than CP at doing CP’s job. CP actually beats out WP over time for most heroes that make use of it, and at safer ranges. WP snipers even get outclassed by their CP counterparts. I find WP to be disadvantaged in most cases, especially by the end of the match. WP’s only saving grace over CP is criticals because without them, CP almost always over powers WP. I agree that the WP tree could use some spice though.

the old pauldron is an “almost total shutdown” for wp carry. it’s complained, and nerfed!

now a suggestion for a total shutdown? it will, obviously complained and nerfed…

I play a tonn of Wp… and the thought of being shut down with such an item ability or a actual hero ability doesn’t scare me. I support it.

it would probably balance the game. it’s still going to be an activable item, meaning timing it right and will also have a CD… and a duration… so it’s not going to be a game breaker.

I don’t know how it would fit in though. a T3 item?

No we don’t need a disable. Atlas is sufficient. MJ needs a small buff to deal with crit carries. Bonesaw needs 5-10 more damage.

Right now AoE mages are the highest damage carries. What we need is an Energy Burn hero or item.

I posted a hero build that does that: Hero Kit Design: Yugana - Bo Master

Idk about atlas being sufficient. It doesn’t handle groups of enemies who aren’t clustered well, as well as ranged WP heroes, who also usually make use of cp abilities. A long cd disable would handle those enemies appropriately and still be fair.

the way to access it will either have to be something like Cath’s ult (hero ability) or a t3 item (either utility or defense)

In case you were wondering, I was thinking it would be through hero kits.

ok, so the hero ability would “disable” Auto Attack… and still leave Abilities open for use? seems abit underwhelming…

but if it disables both… then it’s abit OP… a silence and a blind… how is it going to be balanced?

it can’t be a perk … that would just be OP.

It would have to be a very short duration… maybe 1.5 seconds? and a long CD… Also, the enemy would really need to be “blinded”… due to the way AutoAttacks are inputted by touch screen, the entire screen would need to be blanked out… causing possible movement problems…

Hmm… this is possibly the reason why this has not been implemented… touch screen…

I could see it working as a perk if it runs on a rng system with 1/100 or something chance for 1 or 2 seconds

I wonder if SEMC have conversations like this…

I guess it could work… alot of fine tuning needed… but its not impossible.

Its pretty much the opposite of Tony’s B… they would cancel each other out

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some “dim vision” effect (vision=4m) could nerf the problematic wp crit sniper without shut melee char down.

or confusion (all heroes image either friends or foe changes to captain minion’s)

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Good luck with Atlas versus enemies building raw damage.

Gwen TB SSw TM TM. Have fun with Atlas…

I do want your energy burn hero though.

I think if, like Pink said, it would be a hero ability, it would be just like Cath’s ult silence. And as for the screen thing, enemies could just be untargetable for that short time. Or you could target enemies, but it wouldn’t do anything, you’d just move towards them. The screen blanking out would be very problematic because then you can’t see where you’re moving, your abilities, or your health/energy.

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I could see the screen darkening or going into a negative filter working

everyone with seizures thanks you for your imput. you’re paying the medical bills though.

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I meant instead of flashing, but most with seizures that have not had them controlled should avoid vg anyways ults like Skye’s can be flashy

I was kidding. partially. stuff like bright flashes of color (negative color flash) or darkening/brightening the entire screen hurts my eyes, and I imagine a lot of other people would have similar gripes.

But you would still need to be able to use abilities, which some of them are targeted. It’s a tricky one.

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