Giving a WP buff to SAW, Ringo, Gwen isn’t so much about 1v1 in lane. It’s really about wave clear. SAW with his improved range and push can just bully down a turret pretty quick (sub 5min) even without a kill. He can then lane swap with a top laner with a gold advantage or just keep pushing. Ringo and Gwen both can clear lane reasonably quickly against some of the melee heroes getting run in the enemy’s top lane. Either of them showing up mid with their burst and a buff can pull off a kill, especially if roam is clearing vision in the bottom bush.
I agree junglers like Koshka, Taka, and a few others make for good WP buff carriers. But there are alot of junglers who may not want to take early fights or get much out of a slow and wp.
I don’t like the 3v3 hard rules of “this is mine”. Part of the joy of 5v5 is lack of hard rules.
You have valid points. Having Saw get the early game buff isn’t a bad idea if he has a captain to protect him from an early game gank. Especially because he falls off late game.
However, I’m speaking mostly to idealised general play in regards to pick up games and not coordinated play. Coordinated play can leverage situational tactics like that.
Also, yes, my point of the jungler getting the first buff is exclusive to that they will assist the lane. If that isn’t the case, then it doesn’t matter. The laners, especially the off side laner, should pick up jungle farm to accelerate their progression to compensate for the lack of assist.
The logic is that the jungler will rotate to the appropriate lane to assist, thus having the buff utilized on multiple lanes instead of one, and accelerating jungle clear on both sides of the map to try to starve out the opponent jungler and accelerating the power of your frontline for endgame play.
Of course, if your jungler isn’t going to, or doesn’t, or sucks, at the assist and rotation then it doesn’t matter.
I think if you run a CP Top laner, they may be the best role to take the CP buff. The heal is really helpful. Unlike mid, going back to heal can cost a turret because of the longer distance.They are going to face lots of pressure and the extra damage to clear a wave is helpful. Your team will often not rotate to help.
DNZio has been playing Bot Lane lately. Basically because he can take a WP buff and get kills. Plus it’s the safest lane to farm up.
In general gameplay your average jungler is going to keep going from buff to buff to get their levels up, Your average jungler is going to be worried about their own item spikes. Not about which lane needs help pushing or saving from a siege.
Faster wave clears set up the jungler for the most opportune ganks. That pressure will force the enemy jungler or captain to make a decision: keep farming or protect the objective.
Faster wave clears won’t set up for ganks. If anything it’ll just push the minions to the opposing side of the lane and give the opposing laner the luxury of farming under turret. If anything freezing the lane will set up for ganks, which you need no buff for as all the laner needs to do is only take last hits.
The enemy farming under their own turret is far from a luxury. They can’t last hit as efficiently when the turret is killing off the minions combined with the pressure of being attacked simultaneously.
And if the enemy laner did not have the buff and your laner does, he’s either going to die trying to last-hit, ping his allies for assstance, or run away altogether.
Yes you can. You juggle hits with turret. It’s laning 201. You can, and should be able to keep perfect cs under turret. If the enemy laner dives you have a huge advantage in the fight.
Range increases make it much much harder to safely farm under turret. And if you are pushed back to there it is relatively easy for the enemy laner to take your side heal camp leaving you even further behind.
No it doesn’t. People do it it nearly every game when they are out numbered on the lane.
If your enemy laner is able to push up and rotate to take your side camp, that has less to do with getting the first buff and more to do with getting out laned.
Bingo. Mechanical mastery is great to strive for. But its a bit of an oversimplification to ignore the value of the buff and deem it a “crutch” when it clearly provides advantages to even the most skilled players.
I rarely see any of the POA+ guys take the buff in the opening. I can’t recall any in the past week. Sure, if your jungler isn’t taking it or it’s contested have at it. However, if it comes down to a choice between the jungler or laner it should generally go to jungle.
Have you guys not played the jungle position in 5v5 yet? It sucks when the laner takes the buff. Not only does it take your farm, but it slows down your farming initially as well. As opposed to the the laner having it doesn’t speed up or slow down his farming at all.
Your entire argument revolves around early game ganks, which the jungler should be doing anyway. The laners should be watching their lanes till the middle game not rotating for ganks.
Well, now I feel that’s it’s situational tbh.
If there’s a SAW, as a jungler, I would give my WP buff to him.
If there’s a koshka/krul/taka jungle, as a carry I would let them take the buff.
Depends on who needs it at the moment. Jungler would need the buff if they are rotating and ready to gank, but if its a normal laning phase, i guess if the jungler’s nice enough, the laner could have the buff.
not only am I “nice” enough… I actually ping the laner to come steal it off me… to no avail… are they that scared of offending me?
there’s just too many angry trolls… the laner should get the buff, 100%… because it’s a tough life being a laner… you’re just constantly attacking… no break… unless the jungler helps you out so you can go shop, which i do.
things need to change. troll mentality needs to change.
