Why does every MMO game copy the same foolish Elo system?


#1

Ill lose more elo than i gain because of some troll that refuses to play with any common sense? My performance isnt even taken into account. How tf is that right? Exert energy for 20-30 minutes just to get sabotaged.

I see this same uncreative elo system all over the place.

Some games i dont play as well, most games i do. My progress should reflect that in some significant way not be dependent on someone i cant even talk and give directions or warnings to.

I literally will throw up a warning sign on someone because of a taka in the area and the peson foolishly charged ahead and guess what happened, got killed by taka. We lose the game because of it and i lose 24 elo because i was expected to win. Plz tell me that is not complete bs.

Consider individual performances or dont bother tracking kill/death/assists


#2

I personally would be fine with the ELO rating if SEMC would add a statistics tab (such as vgpro or vainsocial, albeit more accurate and with fewer bugs) that I and others could see. This would make it so people who want to detach themselves from their ELO can say “but look at my stats”, while not having to completely revamp an ELO system.


#3

There are some systems that try to measure individuals within team games, like the TrueSkill system that VainSocial uses: https://vainsocial.com/ but this is never going to be perfect… there are a lot of things that go into winning a match that stats just can’t capture. For instance, even though Vainsocial does a good job of ranking individuals, they still undercount the performance of roams, because the stats just can’t parse out what roams do.

Small question - are you throwing the caution directly on your teammate, or putting it in the place they should avoid?


#4

They don’t. They don’t technically use an “elo” system which is a system that was designed for 1v1 games like chess and they also all don’t use the same formulas or values, not by a long shot.


#5

Also, shouldn’t it be moba and not MMO?


#6

@HipsterSkaarf Yes there are systems such as that, but is it too much to ask for an individual stat tab? SEMC’s would (in theory) be more accurate and reliable. In the past, I know they declined to show losses, although I don’t remember the exact reasoning. I would assume they would decline stats as well, but is it a space issue or something different? If it’s space, the deletion of cards freed up some space…


#7

A MOBA is technically an MMO :nerd_face:


#8

Yeah I guess…
Tho moba is still better >.<


#9

Oh, yeah, I’d like some stats on display too. Of course. I’m a big fan of dataviz eye-candy. Vainsocial’s stats are accurate though… they’re based on the API, after all, so it’s legit data. The issue is devising a way to rank players based on individual in-game stats. I’m not sure if that’s really possible in a definitive way…

There’s going to be chance involved, so you can either accept systemic chance (i.e., we can’t rate roams accurately, but oh well, we’ll hope it’s ok) or you can accept luck-of-the-draw chance (it’s win/losses, and your teammates are the luck factor). The second one seems more reliable long-term to me. But I don’t know… :woman_shrugging:


#10

It doesnt have to be perfect no system is perfect, just let it make sense. A system that completely punishes an individual in a team game makes no sense.

In sports, if a player is performing well and the rest of the team isn’t, the team may not make the playoffs but that player will get paid a lot more than anyone on the team. The team goes down but the player at least is rewarded significantly for being a good player.

Because of course this is a copied and pasted system no thought was given to dealing with people running heroes they have no experience with. You can easily measure how good a person is with a hero by the KDA and playtime.

I only play Taka and only good with Taka, i should not have access to other heroes until i gain a good K/D/A and playtime with another hero in unranked.

No system is perfect but we can’t be comfortable with a bad system because we have accepted no system is perfect.


#11

@Ultidon Agree with the first half of “Try to give credit to the individual”. You lost me when you said you should not have access until you’re good with a hero. Not only would that ruin the fun of the game, but you would have a very difficult time selling that to the majority as a good idea. It sounds like you’re frustrated with the number of people who have no idea how to play a hero in higher ranks, in which I would agree and suggest newcomers go back to beginning at T1, not taking away hero options.
EDIT - Wrong “you’re”. My 4th-grade teacher would be so disappointed.


#12

welp it didn’t take long for this forum to need a salt mine


#13

Massively Multiplayer Online
Mobile Online Battle Arena

Technically, VG is both but ‘MMO’ is very generic and the term MOBA suits it better, agreed.


#14

What is fun is actually winning the game knowing you played well. If you want to play Idris, no problem, run with it for 2-3 hours in unranked and average a decent KDA then go to ranked. I dont think you realize how many issues that would eliminate with matchmaking especially in lower tiers.

I played a match where someone on my team racked up 15 deaths because didnt know when to back off and when not to go off alone. People will literally charge at 3 people near an enemy turret with no escape plan.

I just finished a match with 14 kills 0 deaths someone had 8 deaths. If i had a bad or average game or made one too many mistakes we would have lost.

You can have the same amount of fun in unranked, in ranked there is no fun in losing.


#15

I call it an MMO (which it is) because the elo system VG uses ive seen in non MOBAs


#16

So how would you propose they filter people who are simply unskilled out? “You must have played x hero x amount of times, x amount of hours, or had x KDA” In which case, would there be a failsafe for people who are simply bad and then they can access it after an x amount of time, no matter if they qualified or not?


#17

KDA ratio and hours not number of matches. I think it would be better for everyone if they know that whoever they get in ranked isnt running a hero they dont have experience with.

I also said bad with a hero not bad player. Those are 2 very different things. Bad players become good the more games they play. You cant shut out inexperienced players from ranked.

Ive seen this problem in an MMORPG. Its the most mechanically challenging MMO games probably ever. There are like 200 different things you have to keep track of at any given time. Its the last game you want to take a class you have no experience with to ranked, yet people do it and it costs the whole team the game. It also uses this elo system.


#18

It makes sense, actually this sort of system is used in pretty much every game that has some kind of ranking.
Chess does use it, for instance.


#19

MMO mkay
I sorry but you’ve mistaken, it’s MOBA and VG has afk forgiveness, and you can’t have it on another mobimoba out there. Hope there will be troll forgiveness tho. But i think it’s imposibru


#20

The concept of elo comes from chess, so I don’t think it was ever meant to measure team performance honestly. But what other way is there?