Self evaluation

I played with a vg player in 3v3 , he was good but , he doesn’t know the counter picks and the counter builds , rotations , early and late game , I played with a lot of bad players they probably lack a lot of things , but how is it possible that people make it to top tiers without knowing these things , like I spent time learning that to get out tier 7 and tier 8 , you need to know half of them at least to get out of those tiers .

As a player in the current situation of the game especially new players , do you care about the meta , counter picks , counter build , late game early game powerspikes , rotations , hero pool . Map awareness , stuttersteping .

  • Yes, all of them
  • Yes, some of them
  • No, I do what I want
  • No, onetrick for life , same build every game
  • The game is easier than before and the skills required lowered

0 voters

Convince me this doesn’t belong in the Salt Mine. What’s your goal in posting this?

1 Like

I play the way I want, how I want, and what Im in the mood for. (Thats why I hate rank)

I said in a previous post that VG has started to become a bore for me and I usually have to spice up the way I play to have fun in Vg.

I wouldnt play WP Celeste but more like WP lane Koshka (which I might say is great against Baron) and other heros weirdly.

I have a theory to why vg players suck.

Mobas allow a player to succeed based on the conditions of system support (hero stats and abilities), player skill (choice, knowledge, critical thinking), and teamwork (making decisions as a group.)

I’m going to go right ahead and blame the horrid balancing team and semc for watering down the necessity of player skill in order to win. Remember when krul was completely broken? There wasn’t a point in playing melees. No matter how skilled you were, the system support was just too good. Our items are broken, our meta is toxic.

Secondly, vg isn’t the same thing anymore. It’s just another moba with better controls and camera. Nobody plays it because it’s unique anymore. Lots of the vets might take a look every once in a while because we’ve invested so much in it. To an outsider, they’ve never known the vg we’ve known.

Here’s a rather weird stance Our standards don’t matter anymore. This isn’t vg anymore. t10 isn’t the t10 we once knew. The faster you accept that, the better.

Semc wants to get more money, not a better experience. Judge it as you wish, but that’s the truth.

It’s not fair to ask newer players to be as strong as we once were or still are. You have a choice: Accept that the vg you once knew is gone, and try to have fun by any means necessary, or wallow about the past.

Even though I’d love to see talented players, it’s just not going to happen.

1 Like

No offense, but this post falls right into the stereotype that all veteran players are “salty” that a user commented on in another thread, but was then told to edit that out of their post.

Are you still VG? Are you still playing ranked games with other t10 folks? Different doesn’t have to mean worse. I’m confident in my abilities to take on anyone, and don’t appreciate that because I’m a newer player in regards to the context of the game, that I’m automatically worse than you are/were.

My point is to be careful with such rhetoric. This type of speech is what eventually turned me off from WCIII DotA a while back. Veterans became “elitists” and too good for anyone or to include anyone. (I was a veteran that welcomed and tried to train new players and I ended up being shunned for it by some!)

Now, I very well may be misinterpreting your post, or stretching it a bit, but my point is that such harsh talk of the current competitive state of a game from veteran players can create such an environment that I mentioned above and can really damage the game.

Again, different doesn’t have to equate to being worse.


Yep – Salt Mine it is. Plus, with the direction it’s already headed, I’ve set the topic to close shortly.

I’m T10B and I could say that I’m “bad” compared to the standard of what Vainglorious players “should be.”

  • My knowledge of the game isn’t that deep
  • Jungle minion spawn timers I don’t even know,
  • Info on counters is as basic as Skye -> Reim, Skaarf/Celeste -> SAW, Phinn -> Yates.
  • I don’t really know how to draft (unless it’s obvious counters, see previous item)
  • My hero pool is like… 7 heroes, all of which are captains
  • My comfort picks are like… 3 heroes only
  • I can only play 1 role
  • My rotations are wack and indecisive

I just roam decently enough that I get carried to where I am. I have a certain level of dedication to the game, but with no intention on going competitive. VG, even in ranked, is casual for me so I don’t get extremely salty that often when carries suck (because I know I’d play worse).


I thought about content creation for the longest time now though, particularly gameplay that’s sped up on boring parts (my biggest pet peeve on VG content for the longest time lmao). I doubt people want to see captain gameplay though. Much less exciting than carry gameplay. But maybe if I put a spin on it, sure. :wink: See you guys on my content creation debut this summer. I’m getting off topic, but the thread’s closing anyway

Think of it like this: if you played a strategy game then components that required strategy were removed, how would you feel?

Different doesn’t always mean worse, but in this context “different” means less experience. I don’t know when you joined, but similar to what the op said; How many people know how to counterbuild, choose counter picks, stutterstep, last hit, have map awareness, flexibility, and can learn all of it on their own?

Sorry, but if a a t10 vet fights a t10 newer player, my money is on the vet. They have more experience in a way that just snowballs. Knowing how something changes is just as important as mastering the current state. Being better isn’t elitist, though shunning new players for not having experience is.

Newer players ARE automatically worse, but that’s not to say they can’t get better. Can a newer player be as skilled as the vet? Yes, but it’s hard, and quite frankly, it doesn’t seem like anyone is up for the challenge anymore.

A common complaint among vets is rank doesn’t matter: The skill requirements are so diluted, vst is pretty much only an accurate number to how much you grind, and even that is flawed because of the elo exploit. Did you know smurfs can get placed in t9 automatically? (I’m decaying into t9 s right now It think.) I don’t see advanced techniques being used anymore. Look in the vg discord, other people are saying the same thing.

Did you experience ranked starting from tier 1 and climb all the way?

I don’t want newer players to feel inferior. Rather, it’s the lack of dedication to strive for something stronger which is annoying.

1 Like

i am just so out of touch with the game i am not good at anyone so i play whatever i wish


I would argue the component that may have been removed was the veteran players. Why did they leave? Unhappy with a balance change? A bug that wasn’t fixed? Whatever it was, did it really ruin game experience?

To continue my thought, a lot of people utilize these skills in the games I play. Especially at tier 10. Perhaps a veteran player’s long break and their two tier decay has placed them in games where yes, at lower elo, folks aren’t as skilled with these mechanics. Thanks to folks like Excoundrel, who post videos on how to master or practice such skills, more folks can learn! I think counter building is a more complex topic.

Some players may just feel way more comfortable playing one hero over another. They may be making a more thoughtful decision than one thinks in draft. They could be considering the counter pick, with whom they aren’t as confident or experienced with, or a hero in that same role that they’re way better with.

This last point leads to what be the the most significant and over arching point. Veteran players are their own enemy. When another player doesn’t meet their expectation (be it with a draft pick, a rotation, a build), they get upset which creates a negative snowballing effect for a game that is so reliant on teamwork. Games change. Updates come out. What I see all too often is players don’t like the change because they liked it the way it was before. It’s all subjective though, which is what makes it funny to me. I’m not sure if this happens because folks feel threatened that the hero they’re good with got nerfed so now they won’t be as good, or that they don’t like the new elo progression, whatever it is. I have found the biggest downfall for veteran players of a game, which can be the downfall of the game itself, is the inability to adapt.

Be positive. Avoid the salt mine. Adapt and adjust your game play. I can guarantee you that right now, in VG, the team with the most players who are good at all the skills you mentioned, will still win the game.


Again generalising, one person doesn’t mean every other vet thinks the same. There are vets that are elitists, some that are salty but not all are the same, but you know what some new players have had the same sentiment too of not likening the game or being elitist straight off the bat, just stop with the generalising people.


This topic was automatically closed after 57 minutes. New replies are no longer allowed.

I think the last two posts above are a good way to close this topic out. Hat tips to @Lebatron and @Chippunk :+1: