Sbowballing taking too long 5v5

Vainglory Discussion 5v5
#1

I have played many games in which snowball happened and many of these games lasted for more than 20 min.

Last game i played enemy kestrel who got fed and had 5 dmaafe items and could literally win 1v3 with autotattacks and a glimmershot thrown inbetween.

You literraly die in 3 aa shots . This makes people:
A) feel bad ( inferior, frustrated, hopeless, )
B) they realize that the game is gonna last for at least 10 to 15 min more so what do they do they afk

Once people group up at base entrance you can dislodge multiple blacklaws and defend the vain. Fed players often dont dare to push or purposely dont do it.

I think blacklaw should scale with enemy teams gold. So for example if they have 4k to 6k gold advantage blacklaw when captured goes into rage. And could even scale in tankineas and damage. And vain crystal defenses should be weakened. What is the point of snowball if game cant end in 10 to 15 min. People leave because playing horribly lost games for too long sucks. I play alot of casual( wasting time) you wouldnt believ but games like this can come back to back in a row. (3 to 4 games or more). Who wouldnt leave?

How do you feel about snowballs in game? If moderator detects too much salt in this post move it freely. Wanted to open discussion.

#2

While I understand your logic, it will lead to other issues. Currently at the high tiers if this is changed, snowballing in general will be too easy and this is not always a good thing. Enraged dragon can end, but also expand dominating team gold difference as they will took more towers/objectives with it.

#3

Yeah taking advantage of your snowball is up to your team. I have gone against teams that were REALLY good at rotating and vice versa.

However one thing I would like to see is a nice small primary turret buff. Those things are butter.

#4

I think the real problem is both

  1. Certain characters snowball incredibly hard and out of nowhere cough Gwen cough
  2. Shut downs are incredibly powerful and can instantly turn games around

So what ends up happening in a lot of games is that the team that’s ahead will lock the enemy team into their base and farm jungle for the next 10 minutes while taking Dragons as soon as they spawn until they’re so far ahead that they can either steamroll the enemy or the Blackclaw becomes powerful enough that they can force a fight outside of the base. Going into the base without an incredible advantage simply isn’t worth the risk. It’s not fun, especially without coordination.

My guildmates who were trio-ing in casual went up into a 5 man (who we knew) and the 5 man managed to stall the game for close to an hour simply by having good ranged dragon clear and sitting in their base.

3 Likes
#5

This is a good suggestion for soloq players but at the same time big boost to parties , I watched a lot of soloq games in twitch like one player get 18+ kills but they still lose the game because their team is split or rush disadvantage fights while that fed soloq player was pushing a turret , it’s a good play by the enemy team to take advantage of seeing the fed soloq player alone and far to kill his/her teammates , but at the same time it’s unfair because the game should be ended 5 minutes ago .

#6

No, its not unfair. If just one out of 5 its doing well, why should the match end that fast? It sucks for that one player, but this is a team game. Also, late game you shouldnt be alone.

Then its not a snowballing problem but a player problem.

Ending a 5v5 match in 10 minutes would feel like a brawl mode. 15 minutes is strange but It does happen.

Me. Leaving because the game is hard? If It goes back to back constantly then stop making mistakes every time you are ahead so the enemy cant recover.

Its broken. Its very easy to snowball hard but also very easy to just destroy your work with a single mistake.

#7

There should be some line between where you can recover from a snowball and where it all finishes rather fast. The scenario that ThePinkOtter described is common (lockdown and wait often till bc rage).

Im talking about general experience, casual matches happen and are in number. High elo matches are mostly fine.

#8

Casual matches arent a good representation of the state of the game.

#9

I agree and disagree. Casual matches are still big part of the game.

#10

But are not representative of the state of the game, and the game should never be balance in favour of casual.

2 Likes
#11

Yes and…

Yes.

This is the real problem and is 100% the reason you’re frustrated @Impol. When you are on a kill streak, you know your next death is worth what? 1000 gold? This can lead to many snowballing players to all of a sudden play extremely conservative and harming your team in team fights.

Ultimately, @Guest_78 is correct. It’s a player issue. However, I believe the issue doesn’t exist if you balance the bounty system better.

#12

The bounties are way too high. I would like them to reduce the maximum it gives and increase the gold given for consecutive kills (going from 1000 to 250 makes no sense). This way if you die once you don’t throw completely, but it allows the enemy that if they kill you consecutive times they can recover.

I would nerf early game though, as making this would make recovering harder and it needs a balance between early and late game.

#13

I think the big problem is timing. At about 15 mins if a fed enemy occurs, the rest of the aporox. 10 mins is supposed to be a chance for you to catch up. Problem is it’s also time for the fed player, and by extention fed enemy team usually, to simply terrorize your team if you can’t strategically find a means to come back in gold.

This means that by 15 mins if you’re already getting stomped, you already know the next 10 mins are probably going to be grueling. It is demoralizing.

It’s why I think heavy snowball shouldn’t be a thing. Problem is snowball potential is built into heroes. Fall off suffers the same demoralizing issue at a point if you aren’t successful early game. It’s why I personally think heroes should be more stable than they are when it comes to power creep and fall off. Spikes are fine as long as other heroes that don’t spike have strategic means to creep, but the whole excessive snowball power by end game that needs heavy strategy to counter even halfway, and the whole deadpan fall off aspect when you don’t get effective early play, both suck. It needs to be a bit less and a bit more on each side. Not massively, but enough to make it less lopsided at that mid-point of the game for less skilled or simply outplayed players.

#14

You should see how demoralising is to be the captain, actually play really well and see all 4 of your teammates doing t3 decisions (I mean really obviously bad stuff and all the time, not one time that we all got) that create a 7k gold difference till the 15m. :smiley:

2 Likes
#15

This is interesting, I see a lot of players coming from other MOBA, especially LoL saying VG should have less comeback mechanics, and be easier to get fed and snowball a game.

In most MOBA heroes have way more extreme early/late game potential.

#16

I personally don’t understand that. Are they saying that they enjoy when the enemy is sufficiently defeated and they’re just spending 10 minutes stomping them in other games? I can see the ego draw there but where’s the honest fun in that?

I guess my perpective is different seeing as almost none of my games are a challenge and I carry most of them.

To each his own. I love VG’s come back potential because it actually makes the game challenging and makes you think ahead. That isn’t for everyone though.

#17

This seems pretty prepotent imo. Want challenging games? Stop playing casual and play ranked, easy as that.

2 Likes
#18

Lol it makes no difference. Even against good players I usually come out on top and I’m not gonna sludge through ranking up just to prove something. I already played against good players many times. Not gonna rerun this.

On topic, point being I just feel like snowballing is a flawed mechanic in concept when it comes to keeping the game fun from start to finish. Just my opinion. Heroes shouldn’t have such hard built in plateaus compared to each other, unless it makes sense for their role.

#19

Unless you’re L3oN, that means you’re not being challenged – i.e., that you’re mostly playing against people below your skill level. That’s why @VaKTaBi suggested you play ranked, where the matchmaker does a (somewhat) better job of giving you opponents that will force you to improve.

2 Likes
#20

I got where he was coming from but as I said I don’t have it in me to sludge through ranking up. Back when 5v5 was released I still considered it a worthy goal but by now it’s not something I really feel like trying to do.

I also didn’t give what he was saying much time of day because that wasn’t the focus of my post, the opinions on snowballing were, not to mention the fact that statistically speaking if I play casual modes often I’m going to come across another challenging player in casual, which I usually do fairly often. I just still usually outplay them.

Not to mention I didn’t say anything about what modes I was winning in, so Vaktabi assumed I was playing casual modes anyway, so I took it kinda pointedly.

But yeah, snowballing - I’m actually curious as to what someone like you thinks about this, as well as more veteran players. I mean they’ve kinda reduced how much most heroes plateau in general anyway but I remember patches where late game some heroes barely did diddly squat even with full build and it was like…how is this supposed to be fun in any way? I just can’t fathom why anyone would want that built in just because the hero can do work at the start.

That’s actually one of my biggest frustrations with ranked, the time spent in back and forth trading before your hero even has real killing potential.