Petal rework

Vainglory Discussion Heroes, Builds, & Items
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After the update 4 semc did dev stream and nivmett was there and someone asked who is the hero that need a rework and he said petal , petal didn’t get changes so we expecting a rework but Iam not sure we going to like it or not , like I think the Devs had ideas already of how to do things but maybe the game design limiting things , like having 3 abilities and can’t add new fresh mechanics , they struggling with the bugs .

I was thinking about petal because I played her recently cp , and was thinking why she doesn’t have a perk , or why she doesn’t just turn completely to a Melee hero after losing her pets hehehe , I actually think being squishy without damage (dead pets) is very bad , so why petal not getting strong minion then the more she spawn them they get weaker but you can spawn more than 3 but every time you put one the rest get weaker .

But I think the Devs probably planning a hero got this already and they don’t want to make the game bad , like when they nerfed black feather rose trail you got something close with YLVA , so they nerfed petal perk against stealth heroes and nerfed black feather rose trail because they already planning something to counter stealth .

It’s really a good question to the Devs is it worth it to rework a hero or just put the rework effort on a new hero , or even if they planning 4 abilities heroes then the reworks are useless until they add the abilities , or even better what if they add a 4th ability to all the weak heroes and start testing in game and from there they start adding 4th ability to the strong heroes to balance the game .

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suggested rework
petal munion attack become ranged

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Petal is really hard to rework/buff: according to nivmett, the last time they tried it people from the beta started dodging matches because how frustrating was to face petal.

Problem that has petal: is weak against AoE damage, and mages are in every single match, so you will always get countered, and deleting weakness is not always good /easy/ healthy for the game

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You mean Inara, don’t you?

Hum… no. Petal hasn’t changed against stealth heroes, her munions still reveal them. They removed BF’s rose trail for other reasons.

Which they aren’t.

O would hate that. You can’t have heroes with more abilities than others (Malene is an special case) just because they are weaker. Adding abilities isn’t a good way to balance.

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The problem is petal isn’t a hero. Not really. She’s not a sniper, she can’t do great damage at long range. She’s not a mage, she can’t do any damage without significantly risking her health. She’s not a warrior or bruiser.

She essentially has all the mage negative types, but none of the pros.

  • Buff the munion leash range
  • Remove bonus attack range on b, buff basic attack range to 6. Consider adding an improving amp per level.
  • Bring back sunlight perk. Petal is a unique mage who ramps her damage over time totally dependent on munions. (Munions mark an enemy with sunlight, aa an enemy with sunlight grants you bonus attackspeed.)
  • Buff munion hatching from seed time.
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I think Petal would be better off being a Mage/Support hero instead of a Mage/Sniper. Make her less slippery (body blocking is annoying enough). They should remake her from the ground UP. For exam:

Her Perk causes seeds to spawn randomly (Max of 6, minus Munions) around her and enemies killed by her Petal to spawns seeds. Seeds on the grounds will deal damage when trampled and heals allies (also stacks). Her A will now cause seeds to randomly spawn around her. Her B now turn seeds into Munions OR turn Munions back into seeds. Her ult now activates in a Radius, causing all seeds to explode (damage enemies or heal allies), while her Munions are temporary invulnerable.

(It’s just an example, pls don’t get too emotional)

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How much is it right now?

Her AA range is 6.2 though. Only surpassed by Samuel, adagio and saw.

What would it change? More attack speed for a hero whose basic attacks have no damage (CP)? Doesn’t seem specially useful, don’t you think?

She needs a complete rework, her biggest flaw is her identity: swarmer (it’s called like that?). Her kit revolves around spawning munions, which get easily deleted by AoE (as she has 3 she is less vulnerable to non AoE damage, but due to her strength being divided into 3, AoE hard counters her), and there will always be a strong AoE hero, if not more, in the enemy team, so she is one of the heroes whose kit can’t work right now in the mode without a rework or being op. If she works then it means she can consistently beat a hard counter, which no hero can, because, if she can beat her hard counters, what will she do against heroes that aren’t hard counters? For this reason, I think she needs a rework, as simply numbers tweaking is just ineffective.

I also believe WP should not be encouraged, because being realistic, she doesn’t utilise her kit at all, makes as much sense as WP Samuel.

I’m going to be honest, I hate her, but I’m actually curious to see what they will do to her. Reworking isn’t easy like kensei, who was pretty clear what to change, or reza, which they just move the ratios. No, they will need to be creative because they start from a kit that can’t work, so changing just how her ult works won’t be enough (it’s what they’ve been changing), specially knowing that her kit is extremely frustrating to play against (to the point where at one time they tried buffing a little bit her munion’s health and people in the BETA started leaving matches, in the beta).

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Imma just say that lets hope that SEMC keeps the idea of having mobile summons.

What made petal so unique was her ability to create mobile minions that wasnt fixed to a certain point or stationary.

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Thats why they need to be creative, we’ve already seen them struggle with easy reworks (kensei is no longer the tank killer he was supposed to be), now they are facing a complete rework of the most reworked hero whose kit has proved bad in every patch (5v5). All that without breaking 3v3 and changing her identity. The hardest part will be not changing the identity, given that it’s the identity what makes her weak.

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My bad i thought petal’s range was 5.8 still. The sunlight perk combined with ac is really great. Petal is unique in the sense of having a consistent ranged cp output, dfferent to mages or snipers. The leash range was nerfed a while ago, not sure what it is right now.

It’s ok if aoe counters her, she just needs to be in a position where she has a potential to do damage per her og kit.

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Do you remember when her B used to be inactive unless you get close to a seed to jump , that thing made her hard to play and escape , you had to put seeds around to escape , when they changed it she got better , but the ult stayed the same you need munions alive to activate the ult , even with all the AOE damage you still make it complicated while you could make her spawn and send a munion once you click the ult .

I know adding a 4th ability could make things complicated but it helps keep the heroes the same with adding more to them instead of removing , without munions her damage and ult are useless she just plant seeds and jump.

I made this thread because I think the Devs working on a rework and I think it’s not going to add anything , but I actually want to know when they made that munions change in the testing @Guest_78 @VaKTaBi because they actually added more heroes that have AOE damage , I would like to see how frustrating she was ! , I remember when she was op and played her in op patches her munions range was broken and they chase heroes to the end of the world .

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#1 I would want a total rework instead of what she has right now. I’m thinking sometime close to Gnar (a LoL hero). Perhaps Petal can swap from being Petal to a large Munion. Or well something like that. We have a hero based on Ult that can swap kits but not one that can swap based on a timed/proc passive.

This change to Petal would make her into another laner hopefully. Petal by herself isn’t that bad, it’s just that she can’t be overly buffed because she has three other friends which theoretically “make up” for her lack of damage as Petal (not Petal + munions). No one likes CP Petal everyone likes WP Petal but if they make WP Petal a thing then its literally just an autoattack hero with a jump BUT

#2 Now with that insane transition I debut the proposal of making Petal’s munions actual skill shot blockers. Suggesting something like a wall that blocks skill shots like Samuel’s M&V. Make her Ult into some kind of rage-inducing chemical that her munions release to give her a speed boost, increased attack speed, and temporary lifesteal that can heal up to 400 (or go away after a couple of seconds not being used). Keep the B.
The way I’d imagine these abilities to work would be that munions form a simple orderly wall till Petal leaves a certain radius, where the munion’s proceed to run back to Petal.
Her Ult would be a skillshot like it is now except it provides her those effects when she gets hit by it and enemies would end up taking some sort of WP damage.

So Petal will probably need a fanny pack.

Sure her kit is iconic but it will never work unless they decide to go the Kled (another LoL hero) route and make her into a mount character.

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As @Guest_78 said, you can’t have some heroes with 4 abilities and others with 3, so if you add another ability, you should add it to everyone, and you can imagine how hard is to design the fourth ability for everyone (when kits are designed with only 3, so that addition should fit the kit too) and balance all of them, it’s just impossible right now.

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That’s what the Devs said in the old forum about 5v5 , and when we asked them about adding more abilities they said no , so from their big changes (3v3 to 5v5) , (mobile to cross platform) , I can see the 4th ability coming because it adds a lot to the gameplay , and I think it’s a lot of work but worth it , and as I said start adding 4th ability with the weak heroes or bad kits just to make them feel better , then make stage 2 with adding 4th ability to the other heroes , Malene is a good example , you can do it without breaking the game .

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I see absolutely zero chance of this happening.

The game has too many balancing issues and bugs now, and performance is already suffering. Can you imagine what a :new_poop:show it would be if they attempted to add a 4th ability to the milieu?

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He has a point though. That was the exact same case with 5v5. “Completely impossible to happen, this is a 3v3 MOBA” and everything but it happened. I am not saying they’re secretly working on 4th ability for every hero as we’re talking but it’s very possible that they’d work on that in the future. I don’t agree or think that in the beginning only weak heroes should get 4th abilities. That makes no sense. We can’t have heroes with 3 and others with 4 at the same time. And also yes I do think they need to fix the game before adding anything like that. I am not saying they should add 4th abilities or add them ASAP. Just saying it’s entirely possible.

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We already had a lengthy thread with LDP about why it is and still is a bad idea. The general consensus was a flat no from the fourmers if I remember correctly.

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And we all know how that turned out. :laughing: (Seriously, look how horrible 5v5 was when it launched.)

Yeah, that’s even worse.

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That’s a terrible idea. Malene was different because that’s what her passive and ult does, but you can’t have half the heroes with 4 abilities and the other half with 3. You are reworking all heroes just to balance 1? Plus the inconsistencies, fighting a 4 abilities hero with a 3 abilities one is unfair, unless some of the abilities are useless, in which case why not just replace them (petal)? It also would feel unprofessional, cheap and no sense IMO.

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Oh yes, I agree it was messed up. But that was their fault, the idea itself wasn’t bad. They just don’t know what they want to do with 5v5 without ruining 3v3 completely. But still I don’t think heroes getting 4th ability would be that strange (again I mean not now but in future). 1 really positive thing we could get from that is the fact that some heroes with bad kits could become viable because of new ability (and its interactions with the current 3). I don’t think there’s not enough space either (haven’t played mobile in ages so sorry if I’m wrong lol).

But as you said they have like A LOT to work on before any drastic changes or additions.

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