The recent release of 4.2 balance changes, of which you can talk about here, and some of our (including myself) commentary on it, in addition to the removal of Rumble and re-enstatement of ARAL, of which you can discuss here, got me feeling a little down and out about Vainglory.
I decided to research other mobile MOBA games. As I was browsing last night, I ended up looking at and reading dozens of reviews of dozens (didn’t know there were so many) currently active mobile MOBA apps on the Google PlayStore. By the time I was finished, I was relieved. While my frustrations with Vainglory remain, so does my confidence that this is the mobile MOBA for me and the mobile MOBA that should be for others who desire a competitive MOBA experience on the go.
Often, I feel we can get trapped in a bubble. Perhaps many of you, like me, just stick with Vainglory. Perhaps we can think that only Vainglory and SEMC has the problems we associate with it. Well, here’s what I found:
Several complaints for all MOBAs regarding MM - be it queue time, poor quality of teammates/play, etc
Server/latency/lag complaints. Again, present in every app
Toxicity, toxicity, toxicity. I read a reviews in every app regarding this type of behavior. Some apps have it worse as there is no banning/LPQ structure in place at all!
Skin effects that provide an advantage
Poor progression system
Slow pace pf play (actual movements of heroes, abilities, map animations etc… which is funny, since many of them have such short game modes and timers that run out and thus conclude the match)
You know what elese I found interesting, was that for the most part in Google Play, Vainglory had more favorable reviews to these apps.
My major point however, is don’t a lot of those sound VERY familiar? Vainglory is not the only MOBA struggling with some of our often bemoaned issues. Others are too, and in many cases, are struggling far worse. In fact, it makes me want to give VG props that other MOBAs have these shared issues, yet NONE of them are trying to go cross-platform like VG is (which is a difficult task).
While this doesn’t erase or solve the many problems we face in VG, I do hope it can bring about a little more positivity for those who feel at the end of their rope with a game that is still, overall, a fun game that allows for skillful mechanical gameplay.
That’s beautiful and all that, but doesn’t solve the lack of modes for me to play after the removal of rumble, so even if it’s the best one, I can’t play it.
There are 2 types: white knights, and haters. None of them is realistic. They either say the game is perfect or it’s completely shit and should be burnt.
Oh trust me, I know. Still, it was interesting to read the haters comments on other apps. I found them to be very similar to some of our frustrations here. For some reason, I found it relatively relieving.
I have to agree with some of the other comments here: reviews are worthless. It’s the experience of playing the game that matters. I’ve played two other mobile MOBAs, ML and AoV. I haven’t played ML for quite a while, but I do play AoV, and here are my responses to your bullet points:
poor matchmaking - somewhat valid, but consistently better matches than in VG (probably due to the dramatically larger player base)
lag/latency - literally have never experienced it in AoV
toxicity - it exists but I don’t see it often; the punishment system in AoV is about as effective as VG’s (I.e., difficult to assess)
skins give advantage - not in AoV
progression system - far, far beyond VG’s
pace of play - imo, at least, AoV has enough modes that you can pick the one that fits the amount of time you want to devote to a match; matches feel appropriately paced for a mobile game
There’s simply no way to get a feel for the state of a game by reading user reviews.
Heroes of Order & Chaos and Iron league. Neither of them are the standard VG once was, but I did like HOC back in the day, and Iron League seems to be constantly improving.
I know i am gonna sound really negative but in my opinion the only thing Vainglory got in its favor is gameplay and graphics. Tbh besides quick rejoin (which doesn’t work half of the time) there hasn’t been any quality of life changes for ages.
*Matchmaker is always a complaint in mobas cause its a team based game but i am almost sure there isn’t a single moba out there that matchs the lowest rank in the game with the highest or a premade team against solos.
*The UI has been a calamity ever since they decided to rework.
*Again latency is almost always a complaint in every online game but i am pretty sure you don’t get sucked into abilities in other mobas or your character sliding away against your will only to end up getting teleported in a completely random position. From my vast experience playing online games, the only time i experienced worse di-sync is in pubg pc like 6 months ago where you would get shot behind cover. Also i can’t recall a game that has game braking bugs that have not been fixed for 2 years.
*Vg might not have skins that give you advantage but brawl modes have talents which is just as bad.
*Most games have sub-optimal progression systems and Vg was one of them. Notice how i said was because currently Vg’s progression system isn’t poor its none existent.
*You can never irradicate toxicity in online games, some people are toxic and they will always find a way to abuse thr system and be toxic to other people so in that aspect Vg breaks even with other mobas.
So if you wanna summarize how well Vg is doing in comparison to other mobas, its superior in terms of gameplay and graphics, about even regarding handling toxicity, about even regarding p2w advantages and its basically way behind regarding others aspects such as MM, latency, bugs, ui etc…
Now, I haven’t tried other MOBA, but isn’t the point of a game to actually play the game ?
I’m not saying you’re wrong, (but you’re wrong, to quote Grace) in what you say about VG.
It’s just… I don’t understand why people care that much for the UI or progression system, if the gameplay is top notch ? (I’m not saying it’s perfect either, but the consensus seems to be that gameplay is the point where VG beats the competition)
Then I agree that some stuff such as MM or lags do have an impact on game quality. But I couldn’t care less if the inventory is badly laid out or if some button in the menu is too small.
This appears to be SEMC’s attitude as well, and in my opinion, it’s a terrible approach to building ANYTHING, including a piece of software. The problem with the “it’s good enough” approach is that you end up with bugs that go unfixed for years (which lead to other bugs), increased “friction” as people try to use your product (which leads to frustration), and the perception that you as a developer don’t care about quality (which, in fact, is true).
A lot of people over the years have excused SEMC for VG’s shortcomings “because … gameplay” – the problem is that as those “not game breaking” details that SEMC have neglected for so long continue to pile up, gameplay IS suffering. And that’s a big part of why VG is where it is now: a very distant third in mobile MOBAs.
Even with top notch gameplay people will burn out eventually when there is nothing really new to do and veterans just end up playing only to play and don’t really gain much out of it unless they consistently go to tournaments. Not saying ignoring the game itself is fair to the game considering some steam reviews, but keep in mind the out of game experience is crucial to give new players a reason to keep playing as well as vets something to keep them motivated. There are so many opportunities here for SEMC which the community constantly brings up like ways to use events to reward players and a massive post going into detail about guild reworks that sound amazing that SEMC is not putting the effort in implementing and it’s really hurting the game. EVERYONE here loves the game itself, but lots of us are simply burnt out and want something really NEW to do like in game challenges and try to earn stuff again like when the game was still new.
I always like your approach to things @Lebatron, optimistic but usually fair. In reality Vainglory’s problem was never that it was bad, it’s more about why is it not better? People wouldn’t be so frustrated with matchmaking if there were things to do during wait times, which would be better helped if the social aspect of the game wasn’t so unincentivized and lacking. Not to mention the skill ceiling of player matchups vs the skill floor, nor the smurf problem making all that moot.
I also have been noticing more weird lag bugs than in the past at the start of the match or at other points but I usually don’t lag mid game so it’s kind of a toss up as to how bad it is but there has been more odd lag lately.
Toxicity is an odd complaint. I rarely ever see much toxicity. I rarely even see most people talking much in game. I have yet to witness the rampant toxicity people are talking about but maybe I’ve just been lucky. Doesn’t even seem like people ping spam as much nowadays. I will say lpq is a great system when it works effectively, not so great when you get sprung with a long ban just because you accidentally forgot to accept a match too many times on top of getting troll-reported.
I would let semc go on skins as well if they didn’t push talents so much in rewards, as if anyone but whales crushing newbs, or newbs against other newbs, can properly enjoy talents to some degree. Talents really are the advantaged skins of semc, they just aren’t in the main game mode so we give it a bitter pass. And mind you it’s only bitter because they’re so over the top where balancing them is concerned. No one but some whales or high ranked talent players would be mad about better talent balancing.
Poor progression system is a biggie in this kinda game, if only because if a match is gonna take 30 min and rank is gonna be an effectively useless goal, I might as well feel like I’m working towards something besides a win or loss by itself, and getting something out of my matches that has value even if I lose.
The slow pace of play is a funny one. I remember walking around so much in matches used to kill me before the speed boost we have now. And we’re getting another. Pace of play is determined by more than that but I do think vg is doing well in that department to a degree. I still feel like a mobile experience shouldn’t take half an hour of uninterrupted play though. Rumble filled a really nice niche match time wise, disregarding kraken pushes.
A progression system gives players an incentive to grind, a reason to keep playing otherwise you will eventually get bored of playing the game itself. I have 2300 wins i am not just gonna play without an objective in sight, thats why a progression system is needed to give established players a motivation to play.
And everything adds up, if the game only lacked a progression system or good functioning ui then no big deal i would play just fine. But when on top of a none existent progresion system and a shitty ui you also have terrible matchmaking, loads of bugs, casual modes ruined by talents and latency issues then it doesn’t matter if the game at its core is fun.
also with all due respect, how exactly the MM quality is not affecting the gameplay? He states this is something not related to the ingame feel/fun/competitive factor and I disagree strongly.
Truth…
If they pushed better marketing new events and social improvements…VG would grow… VG’s balance is definitely better than other Mobile MOBA’s balance. VG already has eye catching graphics and effects(though with quite bugs)… can’t understand why they focus more on hats and talents and pings that is practically useless outside gameplay and community/social aspects of the game
