On Heroes Being OP (And Revitalizing A Small Project)

Vainglory Discussion Heroes, Builds, & Items
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There are always complaints about this or that hero being OP, but there’s something I’ve noticed that seems to have a big effect on player experience when it comes to being outbuilt or outplayed that I don’t see a lot of people mentioning: popular builds/tactics.

What I mean is that players often pick builds they think are meta, builds that are popular, builds recommended by the academy, etc. Same goes for heroes. There is a very simple thought that maybe not quite obvious, that presents a problem with this: if you pick popular/meta builds and heroes, the smart player is going to build/pick a hero that can counter that every time, and because of that, off-meta builds/heroes that aren’t expected have the potential to decimate every time, not to mention that the person picking such builds will have more time to tweak them because almost every match, people will be picking similar builds as everyone else.

For example, I’ve noticed some people have no clue how brutal Grumpjaw or Fortress are lately, as well as Celeste, for a lot of popular team comps. Skaarf in the jungle early, because of the consistent speed of his fireball, is also now practical. Churnwalker with a semi-crystal, semi-capt. build can also be effective, and Saw/Grumpjaw as a hybrid captain are actually effective but I rarely see them played, as well as heroes like Fortress, Flicker with his boosted health, and Lorelai, are all still effective carries. These are things that may not seem meta, but can have a big impact against unsuspecting teams.

It would do every player well to remember that this game is HIGHLY customizable, and maybe a hero seems OP, but maybe trying something new with your hero and build would show you that there’s something you can do to synergize your hero and it’s build even better.

And on revitalizing a project, I’m probably going to be posting a series of highly effective off-meta builds and tactics for as many heroes, as I can, sometime soon. There are so many different combinations of items and strategies that I rarely see people employing in the game, so I’d like to share some useful ones with the community. I’ll also be sharing counters/weaknesses to those builds/tactics, to spice things up.

If you have suggestions let me know. Doesn’t mean it’s going to be what I’ll do but I’ll consider any popular ones.

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Definitely will be looking forward to this!!

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Yep, me too, I agree, there are some op heroes that can be countered by off-meta ones, the problem is that this off meta heroes are usually unpopular an players tend to not think about them.

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Try CP Baron jungle, his escape is OP given all the walls and his spamming mortars are the stuff of nightmares…

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The problem isn’t the gold, cp baron requires too much gold to come online to be able to be played in jungle.

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I’ve seen it twice now, more often than not he’ll be stealing jungle farm…

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Stealing, but not jungling, he will be farming both the lane and the jungle to come online as soon as possible.

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Sorry meant lane farm …

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Then it’s the laner the one that can’t farm, which is not good either.

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CP Baron in jungle is a little harder to pull off, though if you have good teamates that rotate into jungle to push enemies away consistently, until you can put an AS and piercing shard on him, CP Jungle Baron can become an early game denialist for the whole enemy team, starving them of any gold or territory outside their own jungle camp by the 4min mark with team synergy, and completely denying minion waves by himself soon after. WP Baron is easier early in jungle though.

I think the first one I’m going to do is either Jungle Skaarf or hybrid CP-capt. Grumpjaw. Jungle Skaarf is quite strong, with one of the fastest clears, next to jungle Varya, as long as you start him with an energy battery and some boots, and return to base early at least once to get a void battery.

Another fun one is jungle hybrid CP-Capt. Saw. It’s surprising how many people won’t put a contraption and FoH on Saw even though his lack of low CD poke and his slow speed make him a good candidate for both. He is able to run quite consistently from jungle to lane due to his 2 A’s. He also becomes a pretty good assassin that way too, able to B and basic through walls and A roll into other lanes or to Jungle miner if enemy catches up, and that saves you a dedicated capt. slot while filling in as a damage dealing finisher for the team due to the missing health boost on his A and B.

I’ll write full guides when I get the chance though.

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Semi crystal churnwalker? What do you suggest building

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The crystal part is BM and AS. The brokenmyth increases the dmg his chains do as well as the heal he gets back from them. The aftershock gives him a means of damage on all enemies that is boosted by the brokenmyth, gives him his own way to heal besides his teamates, that is also boosted by the brokenmyth, and when you have multiple enemies chained, if you hit a high health enemy with AS, that massive chunk of percentage dmg will be spread to all the enemies, and that massive chunk of health will all go back to you. The low cooldown on his chain maximizes how much you proc AS to the second it’s off cooldown.

Usually as Churn, in a serious match, I build, maximized in this order, fountain of healing, contraption, aftershock, brokenmyth, journey boots (his yank kinda makes war treads moot to me unless the team needs to run away), and metal jacket (I don’t like atlas pouldron’s range and delay).

As long as you have a good team that is being careful, that build actually works very well for securing kills, not just assists, and the added defense and health you have makes any enemies that focus you rage in frustration, and if you do get caught in a bad spot, the constant 10 second run from your chain on JB helps you get away or run to almost anything.

And I don’t usually build crucible unless it’s team comp specific because it’s very rare everybody needs a shield at the same time. I find it better to leave reflex blocking to your teamate’s aegis except under certain circumstances, like facing adiago or catherine with all melee team.

And also, I suggest maxing his A/B rather than C. The stun is nice and it helps you travel, but that extra hard yank is the only way to pull enemies so hard they get pulled behind you, repositioning enemies too far to escape from your team at best, and close enough for your team to get quite a few good hits in at worst.

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It’s generally better to stream line into a damage or utility type and work as a team. Off meta hybrids fail most of the time, and really only work with exceptionally talented players.

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True. I usually use off meta builds, and find I only work well as jungler/carry or with players that actually pay attention to their teamates and the map. I’m great as support too but I solo q a lot and it’s hard to find teamates that actually do that. Though as a testament to skill, I usually go 0 deaths & upwards of 15 kills when I play.

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Bookmarked, and definitely tracking this thread. Looking forward to it. I’ll try to give as much input and insight as I can as it goes on.

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Echo? Nullwave? What if someone is constantly blocking your ult. Never knew that BM increased the damage sharing due to his perk

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Echo is alright on him, though you can only double yank or use it for a missed chain if you need to (no double ult because you gotta chain them to ult again). Double yank comes in handy in many situations though, especially yanking under your turret to get those dmg stacks and massive kills early if you build it as a 2nd or 3rd item :grin:

As for nullwave…I just don’t like it, but it is an alright choice to replace AS with as long as you can rely on teamates to properly help clear waves and secure objectives for you, and you’re dealing with a particularly pesky opposing capt. If you get a nullwave it might be better to get a WP item for churn, like a bonesaw or a poisoned shiv, to help your team somehow.

Brokenmyth increases any crystal damage with the shield pierce based on a percent of your dmg, and it scales differently with churn because your damage is based off everyone else’s damage as well. It’s not gonna look like ridiculous dmg at first with most abilities, but say you are chained to 3 enemies and 1 gets hit by a kestrel or joule ult, or one of your teamates is a glass cannon: the amount of dmg churn is going to do with BM, compared to without, sneaks up on enemies so fast that you’ll kill enemies who don’t try to escape your chains before they realize they were in serious danger, and if they do, just yank them right back for more!

Churn’s ult is better for traveling or helping teamates escape, since it snaps all the chains, so I don’t worry about it being blocked much, but when I get a stun into a push it is useful. If you go full team utility with a nullwave then you can utilize his ult for pushes more.

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CP jungle Baron is a beast, met him twice and he is hard to kill and offers huge burst DMG with relatively few items. Sure he won’t be as fed as a lane version, but laners die, he can easily rotate to clear lanes if required and he can totally zone out areas of the map with just a SG and a clockwork.

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And allows the enemy to easily snowball you.

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but, most of the time a decent koshka or taka will haunt you…