My opinion on the current state of vainglory

Vainglory Discussion 5v5
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So I’ve played this game for 2 years straight currently sitting at 1800 wins total and i am the point where i just don’t enjoy playing vainglory anymore its just not fun i feel like i have no motivation to play it. You might think it’s normal considering how much I’ve played this game i am just getting bored of it right ? Wrong that’s absolutely not the case, i was so hyped after worlds ended i was basically like a little child waiting for his Christmas present i was read to put in hours a day grinding 5v5 so it’s definitely not me losing my passion for vainglory. So here are the reasons why I’ve fallen out of love of vainglory, disclaimer it’s gonna be a long one:

The biggest slogan that i kept hearing before the release of 5v5 was that this game mode is finally gonna reward strategy over mechanics but in my opinion the 5v5 map isn’t that different to the 3v3 one it just feels like a bigger version of it. The main flaws that were present in 3v3 and that ended up making this game mode so stale can also be found in 5v5.

The first big design flaw is the healing treant and it’s placement, this camp is just ridiculously overpowered people don’t realize how huge the healing and the energy regen is, you literally go from 40% hp and energy to full by taking one treant. And what is even more problematic about this camp is his placement and how close it is to the sidelanes because first it means that there is very little risks in trying to take it and second it means that you can be forced out/zoned out of it because one player had a superior position in lane. Many pros have said it, the healing treant is what determines the outcome of a lane, whoever manages to get this camp over his opponent ends winning the lanning phase, the healing and the energy regen this camp provides plus the exp and the nice little gold bounty are just are a huge advantage that will help you slowly suffocate your opponent who will end up chocking. And that’s a trend that was carried over from 3v3 in the form of the mid treant, a camp that is so powerful but yet is so exposed and easy to control which will enable snowballs

The second flaw in the 5v5 map is the jungle shop, i know most people like the jungle shop because its an unique aspect for a moba that vainglory basically invented but i was hoping there would never be one in 5v5. Just like the healing treant, the jungle shop’s biggest flaw relies in its position, a player that has a superior position in lane can control the jungle shop by either zoning the opposite laner out of it forcing him to stay in lane with an item disadvantage or make him take the longer route to it and lose cs in the process.

The third flaw is the jungle design and how lackluster it feels. Just like 3v3 where there is mainly 3 jungle camps in the form of the backs the mid and the middle part of the map (fronts+elder treant), 5v5 also only has 3 main jungle camps in the form of the buff camp the gold oak and the healing treant the only difference is that there is 3 camps on each side of the map. But top side jungle will be cleared by the mid and top laner at the first rotation and the cp buff will keep on going to the mid laner while the treant will naturally go to the top laner because its crucial for him to win his lane match up which leaves very little incentive for the jungler to ever go top side. That means many things, first the absence of any jungle pathing/rotations so just like 3v3 there is one set rotation that is always repeated so there is no thought behind clearing the jungle, second the jungler is always under-leveled and gold deprived unless he snowballs out of control and finally it means that bot lane will get all the jungle pressure will top lane will get none. Because a jungle rotation consists of basically 3 camps which take 100 and 150 seconds to respawn, the jungler spends most his camping lanes because there is simply no jungle for him to clear which makes jungle the most boring and brain dead position to play.

The 4th flaw is the asymmetric nature of the map, while it looks cool on paper it really is just a pile of bullshit because all it really does is make the top laner’s life a pain in the ass. So asymmetric map means your bot lane is against the enemy top lane and your top lane is against the enemy bot and the jungle is also swapped around. Because of this concept bot lane will always get the wp buff or at least share the ambient in the early game while the top laner will not receive any buffs since cp buff goes to the mid laner. And like i said earlier, bot lane gets all the jungle pressure while top lane gets very little to none so that combined with the buff disadvantage makes life a living hell for top lane where you’re constantly fighting an uphill battle.

So these are the reasons why i don’t enjoy playing the game, it just very frustrating to play and feels very repetitive and doesn’t feel any different to 3v3 and for someone who played 3v3 for years, creating a new game mode that contains the very same flaws is just very demotivating to play. On top of that there is no in game feature to keep veteran players interested in the game, no leaderboard, no ranked rewards which is absurd for a game that is 4 years old but yet doesn’t have a progression system. I’ve never played a game that doesn’t reward its players for progressing gosh you don’t even get an animation or a message that says congrats you’ve just advanced in skill tier, you spend months grinding ranks and the game that promotes to vainglorious feels like winning any other game.

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Excellent points, well articulated. Fwiw, I share your frustration with the state of the game. (I’ve been around since Season Zero.)

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Excellent analysis. I have not been demotivated to the same degree (at least not by the map-layout), but those are valid points and should be taken into consideration for a potential revamp.

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The lack of progression feeling is the biggest issue in the entire game.

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I personally like 5v5, but it does have it’s flaws like WP buff being heccing broken. However, you make good points. The asymmetric map does seem a bit annoying for the top laner since the bot laner or jungler, who will generally be in bot lane, can slow you for decades. My main gripes are just hero balance and WP buff balance though cause I guess I am fine with the healing treant and such.

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I agree in this, it’s a shame that after almost 4 years we still don’t have any good progression system, the last one we had was destroyed (skins grinding).

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Take some time away. I took two season off of rank and I am throughly enjoying 5v5. Here’s my thoughts on your complaints:

  1. Healing Treant - SEMC needs to look at the amount of healing and energy regen. They have dropped the exp, but I agree it’s the get ahead and stay ahead mechanic. It also needs to do a little more damage.

  2. Jungle shop - The area to shop is too convenient for the bot laner. I should be pushed back a little to help the Top laner.

  3. Jungle Camps - Disagree. 3v3 became a mindless, mechanical farming experience. 5v5 camps force players to keep track of the time and make decisions on where to be. Jungle is a much more impactful role because it’s freed to gank without losing gold efficiency.

  4. Asymmetrical Map - This increases replayability because the Top and Bot lanes are different. Every position feels unique because of the asymmetry. Part of the issue is Roams camping mid or out of position.

I’ve been here since Day 1 NA download was made available. I am enjoying the game more today than anytime in the last year. 5v5 needs improvements but it is so much better than what 3v3 has become.

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To be fair, though: That isn’t saying much, after SEMC deliberately ditched the entire 3vs3 game-mode in terms of balancing (and likely general development).

I think there’s more than a little room for improvement in the 5vs5 sector, too, and after the App is returned to a stable state, the OP’s points could be a good reference.
Though I personally like the asymmetry, too. I’d like more of it, in fact, if it doesn’t have a negative impact on gameplay.

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Though the asymmetrical map destroys their making a unique map as such map is widley used in moba

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But anyway, I think that the jungle shop should be at the Crystal Treant and reverse.

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I pretty much agree with everything here. I’ve actually uninstalled Vainglory recently until my desire to play again returns, and, I couldn’t quite place a finger on exactly what about the game was really bugging me but I’ve found some reason within your post.

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Omg…finally i know that all you guys feel the same way as me after playing vg more than 2 years. I stop playing vg now, i only open the apps and open those free chest and exit. I dunno, but i feel like losing motivation and spirit to play this game. Vg become boring in the end. Meanwhile i am attracted to play another moba which is weird lol. Oh God, i wish there something new and better improvement for VG in the future…

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I sorta feel how you’re feeling. I want to like 5v5, and I’m starting to actually like it. However, it lacks the perfect fun of strategy and feel that 3v3 had. It just doesn’t feel like the vainglory experience, maybe it’s how the graphics aren’t the same type. I’m not sure.

Also I would like the game a little better if you didn’t always play from the right side. That would let me see each side of the map better and its advantages. :frowning:

Another thing I want to see is deeper hero lore, a complete story. A story for 5v5 too. New lore for each hero on how they got form the Hayclon Fold to Sorveins Rise, something invloving the Storm Queen. I really feel like SEMC got lazy on the lore, which has always been something I’ve enjoyed.

I would also like to see more interesting heros. Tony was a little plain, I want people where their abilities complement each other. For example Rona: Jump in, attack. Reim: Attack, Root, Spire. Samuel: Pretty Obvious Celeste: hit, stun, hit, Lay out bombs. Kestrel: B, A ETC
They are a lot more interesting. Also heros with WP and CP paths. I understand mages are for CP, but more multipath or hybrid heros would be cool.

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Me too…i love the hero’s lore which makes vg different to other mobas. I am so curious how Alpha’s journey to hunt down Catherine and Kestrel and the famous lore about Ardan’s family and Reza’s complicated family.

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Yeah, as much as I’m practically addicted to the game again (I play daily again, and I dont just play Blitz and BR) I think they should just take time to take a deep breath, and clean the game up. I’ve seen the thread where someone mention that the networking code is horrid, and even though I’m no expert in programming, I do think that they should get some downtime and revise things like that.

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I respect your opinion and how you express it, but I do think some of the things you see as deficiencies are strengths.

Take the asymmetry of the map for example - people find top frustrating because they think its a lane you have to win - its not - its a lane where you prevent the opposing team from winning.

Or the placement of shops and healing camps - you are right these contribute to snowballing but some snowball is needed - otherwise the game just stalemates.

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I know that top isn’t a winnable lane i always focus on cs and cs only when i play it, i never try to outrade my oponnent but you can still end up 3 man dived and lose top lane and there is nothing you can do about it that’s just frustrating. I am not saying the game should be stale and late game focused i agree that its boring i like getting rewarded for agression but right now the laning phase is basically a race to the heal camp that’s a very cheap strategy it doesn’t feel rewarding i wish it was something more complex. Top lane has to be a tank usually with slow clear since he’s single target while bot lane has much faster clear so he usually always wins that race since his jungler is almost always gonna be bot side its impossible to contest 1v2 with a wave shoved in under you tower

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As long as the lane camping remains this game will not be fun to me there is needs to be an item to farm the jungle like in lol so the jungler can actually farm and be somewhere else than bot lane. It will also prevent bot lane from being so far ahead in xp so he can actually have a chance to survive right now you can play your cards perfectly still end up getting reckt basically

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Well…there is Stormguard Banner/Stormcrown. Can’t really go wrong with it on anyone. You just sacrifice a CP, WP, or Support spot, but gain health, cooldown, and true damage for massively more efficient farm, so it is what it is.

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I understand where you are coming from. But us players, have to be patient with the developers of the game. Understand that the 5v5 feature has only been out for a few months now and that it is still in its SUPER early stages. I still hope that as a community we can still love Vainglory for what it is, a frickin awesome mobile MOBA.

Take note that there IS in fact a progression system, as of recently. Players who reach T7 will receive an unannounced Ardan skin. I hope the developers will continue with these little surprises.