My 5v5 - 4.5 Tier List

My attempt at the hero tiers in 5v5, patch 4.5. Obviously looking at the community voted tier list, I know alot of you will have a lot to disagree on this list with me. I’m curious to know which parts.

Vox and Reza are definitely not tier A. Idris is way weaker than Samuel, same with Silvernail. Alpha is really good right now, possibly tier high B. Magnus should be tier B at best, and Miho maybe tier S.

Edit: those are the most important things IMO. Obviously Baron is not B tier and Pateto should be paired with SAW. Ardan is not that good.

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Idris should be D tier IMO, Vox C, I don’t understand why you put him A. BF is not stronger than kestrel or Lyra. Lyra should B S tier, she is the best roam right now with a noticeable margin. I would put Yates A tier. Phin isn’t that low.

Thanks for sharing: that seems like a cool little app to make a tier list.

My edits I would make:

  • Move Lyra up to S tier
  • Move Grace, Reza, and Celeste down to B tier
  • Move Vox down to C tier
  • Move Tony, Anka, Silvernail, Ringo, and Idris down to C tier
  • Move Yates up to A tier
  • Move Phinn, Krul, Alpha and Fortress up to B tier
  • Move Petal and Reim down to D tier
  • Move Flicker up to C tier

I’m happy to elaborate my rationale for the sake of discussion if you’re interested! (Any of you :slight_smile: )


Why would ye place Grace B tier? The fact tha’ she is picked in most matches as top laner (priority pick) plus her strength to withstand 1v2 situations is enough to give her at least A tier. Oh an’ let’s not forget tha’ sweeeet heal in team fights.

Miho should be S same with leo… Skaarf can be a candidate also, i agree grace should stay at a strong pick, sam can be a potential A rank…(potentially)… i think thats it

Because I feel she is only a “solid pick” - I think she’s also a bit situational, and other heroes I find to be better top laners, such as San Feng, Joule, Catherine, and even Warhawk. I also feel she’s not utilized well enough, and while her heal is nice, the rest of her kit doesn’t scale well late game. I do agree, she’s a nice pick. Nothing wrong with B tier :slight_smile:

Grace is not supposed to scale lategame…

Understood. Hence why I don’t think she’s “A” tier. I like B tier for her. A lot of games go “late game” nowadays, especially in 5v5. From my experience, it’s far more common to have games last longer than 25 min than shorter.

You forget that her teamwide Holy Shield also scales with CP for strength and duration so that makes her a sleeper. :sneezing_face:

Ardan is more of a C-tier pick. He’s got his ult to initiate a fight, but otherwise, he’s practically useless in a teamfight with a single-target A that has too long of a cooldown.

I’d also move Yates into A, at the very least. He might have long cooldowns, but that level 1 utility provided if you put a point into A is unmatched by any other hero. SEMC never balanced the sheer utility that such a long-range grab has; they only attempted to make it less frequent, which doesn’t do much if you are accurate with your hooks.

Adagio is definitely not as good as before, but he’s probably a B-tier pick. His ult now stuns for 3 seconds, and although it can be tough to pull off, a 3 second stun is nothing to sneeze at. He can’t harass like before to make him an S-tier captain, but at least his utility is better.

I don’t think Adagio is good enough to be B tier, he relies too much on his earlygame, which was cut off. His healing is way worse than Lyra’s and his B doesn’t scale into lategame while not being amazing in early (you can still outdamage him with many heroes).

He has no mobility and the only useful thing is his stun, but to land it he has to use his boots ( :vgitem_wartreads: ) to get in the middle of the fight, to heal himself and cast his ult, however, his ult gets blocked really easily and Adagio can’t afford taking the amount of damage he would be receiving since his FH got also cut.

He is, for me, the worst captain along with Fortress and Flicker, but those two can be played as junglers or top laners (flicker) even though is a little bit off meta, whereas CP Adagio has no impact most part of the match: his early, again is not amazing, he has low range and only deals damage if he is using his B, leaving him many seconds in a fight without impact, and his build is not what we could call “cheap”.

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This is honestly very inaccurate. It feels very much based on personal preference.

I will say this though: What the community, or even to players think are good is often not quite accurate. I really do wish we still had WR and API because it really shed light on how difficult it is to gauge power levels. I for example personally believe Leo is very overrated, probably high B tier. I just don’t think his win rate is great, even if he can make flashy plays.

So don’t necessarily doubt yourself just because the community in general does not agree. Just remember the common meta is usually “mostly right”.

Why do ye think Leo is overrated? In me experience, whenever I got th’ chance to pick hi’ in ranked, the matches turned out to be ez wins with little effort an’ not a single defeat.

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Vox I can agree should be lower. Samuel I was considering pulling up at last second but didn’t , so I see your point there as well.

Reza is strong tho, underrated right now, just as strong as before. He is one of the best assassins picks right under inara and bf maybe.

Silvernail is not worse than Samuel at least on par or even above him. Another hugely underrated pick. He is so strong against the meta comps, whether WP or CP. He may not be the biggest DMG dealer WP carry but makes up for it by a lot with his CC.

He is insanely easy to shut down early game, and his late game kind of requires your opponents to make mistakes. I have literally not lost a game against Leo playing jungle. Start rotations at CP, and rotate down to bot. No matter how good Leo is he literally cannot cs into two opponents or trade well into them. His kit does not have the tools.

“Alright” a hypothetical person might say “but hes late game is so overwhelming that it does not matter”. I agree that’s how Leo wins games. If you head into mid late game with decent gold, you can be crazy aggressive and literally chunk 70% of health in one A. I don’t actually think Leo’s far late game is very good. Once the captain gets all his utility items, the lack of sustain damage leo has really hurts him. Unlike something like CP Vox who just keeps getting better, Loe hits a barrier where past 25m he actually tends to be less effective.

Assassins are right now weak (except BF who is a poke assassin). Reza can be pressured in lane, his 1v1 potential is pretty good, but his lategame presence is nonexistent thanks to how his kit works (he relies too much on his ult to deal damage, and it can be blocked too easily).

Silvernail is way weaker than Samuel, Samuel is almost top tier in mid (after Warhawk and Skaarf, who are both OP) whereas Silvernail is weaker than Caine, Leo, Kestrel, Kinetic, Kensei… the consensus of the VG silver and gold in EU is that he is just viable, but they don’t recommend playing him never. His CC is good, but it doesn’t compensate the lack of damage AND mobility (the CC was intended to compensate the mobility, but it has to compensate now the damage too, which leads is a weak kit)

And with all that, he is priority in most games. Leo is not that easy to harass, not if he knows what he is doing, he can trade with Kensei and his earlygame is better than Idris (just to show that his early is not the worst). His clear speed is good and under turret he can farm well. He is, no doubts tier A.

Reza has 0 late game pressence, and unless his team is also snowballing hard he can’t close game. It’s been a while since he was consistently picked here in EU.

Silvernail is not close to Samuel. SN is ~3 worst wp carry in the game, only better than Saw and Vox. His damage is mediocre at best, and while he may have strong cc, he has no mobility either and can’t protect himself like a kinetic would.

Idris is happy because you think he is better than Silvernail, but he is sad and depressed because he knows that you just have forgotten him :pleading_face: :cold_sweat: :sob: :sunny_sad_3: