Dodging is ruining ranked


#1

I feel like this is a repetitive topic so if someone could like merge this with I think BORB’s topic it’d be nice.

I realized something yesterday, dodging is actually terrible and it isn’t only responsible for longer queue times. It’s also responsible for boosting.

**TROLLS AND BAD COMPS**

Dodging whether it be because there is a troll or a bad comp happens. It is probably responsible for a large amount of the reasons why the match doesn’t begin. If the match does begin then probably you lost. So is it really worth losing all that ELO you worked hard for? Is it worth playing with someone so toxic for 20+ minutes? If it is and it isn’t is where the people split on if there should be consequences for dodging or not. This has been talked about many times so I will not go deeper into this segment of the topic…

**ELO BOOSTING**

You heard me right. There are so many boosted players in VG especially thanks to dodging. I was thinking about why there are so many people who I personally perceive as “not good” at 2500 ELO and how come I am still at 2450. I first thought maybe they got better, but haha they didn’t. I decided to stop playing 5v5 rank for a bit and went to 3v3 rank (snowball fest obviously, losing or winning), and I ran into someone who hit the leaderboards and I perceived as “not good.” Funny enough they didn’t improve at all and I dearly wished they were on the enemy team.

So my original assumption that they got better was wrong (maybe some did, but I doubt all of them did). Then I thought “hmm maybe they just have ELO boosted accounts” which would also mean that they will drop down hard eventually. I admit my account is ELO boosted for 3s so I get 10-20 ELO from each game in VG (at least I did before decay). Got to VG Silver and pinnacle of VG Gold at around 2780 but it meant nothing and it still means nothing- only to those who have ELO boosted accounts like me. In 5s my account isn’t ELO boosted at all and I am actually feeling the grind, meanwhile, I have some friends that made it pretty evident that some individuals get 15-20 ELO per win. SO whatever if this is the case or not.

This is the important and most recent part of my analysis. Just yesterday I was playing with a semi-popular streamer. In my opinion, he is not one of the best players and should be at low POA Gold. You know what he asked for? A dodge. I was trio queue so I knew who I was playing with. A god tier midlaner who rages but its cool and a pretty good top laner who is able to hold turret as long as he gets just one or two rotations from support, and he is a good support player. This streamer asked for a dodge because he is playing with “randoms.” Like okay damn, I played against you as a top laner and I popped off hard because you’re such a bad bot laner and player in general and you see yourself as having a reason to be able to dodge because “randoms who might be a bad teammate”? It’s people like this who choose their matches being the reason why there are so many boosted players in VG. And the only reason this is possible is that of dodging. This may have sounded a little bit salty but it is a valid reason as to why boosted players are so prevalent and they are super annoying to deal with.

**THE SOLUTION**

Let’s make the karma system and sunlight system more useful.

KARMA SOLUTION
If you have great karma you are allowed to get away with one dodge, but you will go back to Good Karma. The first dodge when in Good Karma will cause you to lose “x” ELO, but you will still have good karma. This gives you a chance to redeem yourself. The second dodge while at good karma will cause you to ELO and serve time in LPQ (even though it is a placebo it really is annoying to deal with). After this, if you dodge while you are in LPQ you lose a segment of your tier. Meaning if you hard T8 Gold about to reach T9 Bronze you will go to the beginning of T8 Silver. Obviously, you have to put a lot of effort to get to that point so yeah. ALSO when in a party you can’t give your teammate an upvote instead you must tell them how much you appreciate them in chat :smile:

SUNLIGHT SOLUTION :sun_with_face:
If you are at Good Karma and dodge, congrats you lost sunlight. This deduction of sunlight will be based on this equation:
#of texts/(# of people who texted multiplied by 2) = loss of sunlight
This means if there are low amounts of texts and everyone texts once you will lose a part of a sun. Now, this may seem quite useless at first glance but it gives power to the players. More interaction with each other in draft will result in the dodger being heavily punished with a huge loss of sunlight. In previous updates sunlight may have seemed like a very useless system and truly at once but with SEMC releasing the Battle Pass and very very good end of the season rewards, sunlight matters a lot.

Hey mods if this manages to break rules somehow then I request to just keep the solution part because I like it a lot :slight_smile:


#2

There were several threads about topics like these but I feel this can stand on its own.

Nice read and yes I agree, people cherry picking matches is what creates boosted players. That on top of a wobbly matchmaker who thinks two tier 10 silver with 3 t8 gold vs 5 poa is a good match up…


#3

Ok well this thread is something that should be in the dear semc because it has good ideas


#4

okay so i know this guy from when i was a t6. This shitbag plays only skaarf. Like you force him to roam, you dont, you choose everything and give him the lane position with a cherry on top and whatever happens he’ll play that one hero- skaarf.
He isnt that good at it. I knew him since my low t7s and t6 time. I matched into him recently twice or thrice. He still trolled and picked skaarf in every 5v5 game. Somehow hes POA silver. I carried one game hard with him where he was playing shit as usual. And yesterday i saw him in my team again and dodged. And queued into him again :slightly_smiling_face:
According to you if theres a lot of interaction the dodger gets heavily punished. That doesnt make sense at all. Half my chats are filled with indo and god knows what crap that i dont even understand. I never ever dodge but something i just dont want it. Dodging should be allowed to some extent and after that only should there be minimal consequences.
And tbh the real reason for boosting isnt dodging. Its cos of actual higher tier players carrying their friends n shit. I know people in my guild who were like t7, t8 and are in VG now while i m sitting at POA silver-gold for half a year cos i soloQ. TO PREVENT BOOSTING I REALLY THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE INDIVIDUAL ELO GAIN/LOSS. There needs to be a MVP system in both teams where the mvp in each team gets like 20 elo whereas the rest of the team gets between 10-20 elo while the mvp in losing team shouldnt lose much elo. There are always one or two in the losing team that actually try their best while others dont. This way, the one who is doing the real carrying gets ranked up quickly. This way even if a higher tier player is trying to carry a t7 with a smurf, after 20 games, the smurf should be poa silver and the t7 should probably got to t8 bronze. This way they wont be able to rank together. A few days back a teammate added me and challenged me to a 1v1. I got rekt. Guess what, he was a vg gold player using his friends account. He called me a noob cos i didnt let him lane lol and he did the 1v1 to show he was a better laner (Altho the 1v1 was unfair cos he said laner n used glaive but whatever)
Boosting like this is inevitable. But atleast the boosting using smurfs will stop. I know so so many t10s who have like 2-3 t10 accounts. My rank in SEA is like 1k n i m sure among the top 1000, like atleast 200 are smurfs lol. Ive partied with unknown people looking at their ranks thinking they’d be some good. But no. Half of them are boosted. They arent bad but just not good enough to be Vainglorious. And considering the coming of 5v5, majority have left 3v3 so all the t7s and t8s automatically got boosted to t9 and i keep getting matched with them. People build SM and PS together. People build SF/FB on vox/petal lmao. Thats the level of t9s in 3v3 atm.


#5

That sad moment when someone who’s willing to play the captain role appears in your team but someone dodges the match…
That aside though,I like the your suggestion of the sunlight system penalty.


#6

There is individual ELO gain how do you think people like who are VG feel everytime they get paired with POA players? EZ 3 ELO while the rest of them I just managed to boost to who knows where.
The Skaarf is a prime example of what MM does, it for some reason matches players who you already played with (can’t confirm but I feel as if this is too obvious to not notice) a fix that I have seen is reporting the match for "Enemy too strong/My team too weak."
Boosting with friends is inevitable because after all this is a video game you want to get to the top with your friends. MM takes the average of your team’s ELO and takes the average of the enemy team’s ELO and thinks “BALANCE!” So to some extent that “friend” has to be good because eventually you’re gonna hit a rock and get stuck because 5v5 is a team game. My dodging = boosting thing is because people who are SoloQ are just trying to snipe good players and get some ELO because good players always match against good players.

I did allow dodging for some extent for a bit, I don’t see why people who heavily dodge should not be punished. We’re playing on our phones right now and tbh I am too addicted to this stuff but once it dies down for me I’m just gonna go back to league. I emphasize on phone because not everyone has 30 minutes to go back in forth queue. If you feel like dodging is a necessity suppose my “Karma solution” is implemented. You should play some casual matches and hard carry. You get those likes and boom you’re at great karma. You have one free pass to dodge. You use that when it is very necessary and then you play Blitz directly after. Hopefully the match with the person who you didn’t want to play with begins so you get matched with other people. If you match into that person then oh well just play the game because it is a game. If you still dodge even if the person isn’t there I think the terminology for that is a “toxic fk.”


#7

I mean like the ideas are kinda meh probably would receive a lot of hate because of how you lose karma instantly after playing a couple of blitz and not getting thumbs up. They seriously need to fix that.


#8

Had a VG bronze telling me I was wrong to build PS on my CP Vox (3v3), “spellfire was the mortal wounds equivalent version for CP”… he said, I explained that only applied on his ult so it’s a waste, but he wouldn’t have it.

I went on to explain my logic, namely I wanted increased attack speed (more basics equals more resonance bounces), a heal and a mortal wounds to combat the Izo. He told me I should have built eve or SF, when I said but PS does both their jobs for me and I’m not losing a great deal from my CP side as eves like 50 CP he said “delete game noob”.

Now I wouldn’t advocate PS as a standard item on a CP Vox, I built it specifically to counter the enemy but this guy at VG didn’t get that, he basically told me to think laterally, I was like I just did, but he couldn’t get it.

When I checked him out it turns out he partied up with two friends (over 150 games with them) and made VG. This came as no suprise since he understanding of the game was very questionable (he twice tried to 3v1 an entire team whilst the row and I had recalled and effectively threw the match or us).


#9

So you took my advise from the guide? Cool haha


#10

I once got invited to a party of VG duo who just lost cos the carry didnt know how to kite. They called me a noob and said reim can 1v1 krul :slight_smile:
I challenged them to a 1v1 won like 5-0 n left the party n deleted them.
Thats the level of half the VG scrubs. Another time my friend hav invited me n his other friend for a 5v5 game. We lost cos i had connection issues and was underleveled due to that. But the other guy in the party sent me a friend req and i accepted it. And he started telling me some crap in god knows what language and started calling me a noob cos i picked reim. He challenged me to a 1v1 told me to play reim. Guess what he picked? skaarf lmao. And still lost. He picked cp kestrel next and lost terribly.
After that he said that just cos i beat him twice doesnt mean i m better than him cos hes VG and i m poa silver only.
Half the VG scrubs are boosted and have this attitude that theyre god and every time i see a VG scrub trying to show others that theyre at a different level, it just pisses me off.
A few months back i had a poa silver friend. We partied a lot n got to poa gold. Then one day i kept playing solo n lost a lot of elo cos i kept getting trolls and afks(Yes hlaf the afks dont get recognised)
So i fell back to poa silver. Then i partied with him again and i legit carried that game that made him get to VG. Then i kinda stopped playing and when i came back, i wanted to party with him but he said i m a noob cos i was just poa silver and that he only plays with VG players :slight_smile:
How do people get this attitude so quick lmao.


#11

Vainglorious bronze 2400 doesn’t impress.

But I have never seen a Vainglorious silver 2600+ not impress and outperform others…


#12

Easy Fix
If somebody dodges, they lose 100 elo, and that elo is spread out amongst the enemy team.

Edit: This would break a lot of other stuff but hey.
Dodging succ.


#13

I’ll go so far as to say 50% of my matches are dodged at the moment.