Content archived from the Original Vainglory forums - originally posted by @Nikhil21 on the 22nd of March, 2017 archived by @DIMTI
CP JUNGLE SAW SHANK U
I have been meaning to make this thread for a while now and todays the last day for the VG Teachers Event so figured I’ll finish it up and enter with this.
Allow me to introduce my favourite off meta pick this patch, cp jungle saw. The real assassin who can eliminate targets in a flash, but wait a minute, did he just say jungle…? TROLL
TROLLL
TROLLLLLLLLLL
To be honest people have dodged me in rank and even cas because they think I’m going to straight up troll. While some off meta like lane glaive or ringo jungle is still considered viable to many, jungle saw makes that random solo que roam who softlocked roam ardan change to jungle right away. Support a cp jungle saw? No way! Some are open to it and have a positive attitude from the start, but others consider it a troll pick and do not see it as viable, that’s what I intend to change here.
To elaborate on the merits of cp jungle saw, I will compare it to cp lane saw in some instances. Cp saw in general is a late game powerhouse capable of dishing out unparalled burst damage and not being as let down by his mobility as his wp counterpart. He is a mobile assassin capable of shanking enemies to oblivion but needs to get close and personal. His b is the only long ranged damage he can output and allows him to get max stacks.
ABILITIES
Let’s take a short look at saws abilities and a few tips and tricks.
Roadie Run( A )
Saw’s first ability is his shank. Important things to note here is he gets a movement speed buff as he sprints, he loses all stacks, and will rollback the opposite direction to which he shanks his target. This ability does missing health bonus damage and has a crystal ratio of 20%. Incredibly powerful against low health targets (or an alpha in reboot which counts as 0 health so maximum bonus) and can eliminate a target before a fountain can even take effect.
Jungle saw can use his roadie run not only to be mobile in the jungle but to wall jump and to steal contested farm particularly treants. He can shank even while rooted if the treant is right beside him and can attempt to solo mid treant even with an enemy waiting to try and steal it. The rollback also helps him get into a slightly more safer position.
Suppressing Fire( B )
Saw’s second ability, his suppressing fire is a long aoe ability which locks him in place and grants him full spin up stacks. This ability has a slightly longer range than the animation and figuring out the actual range can be helpful. Easier to sidestep out of than to walk directly away from it. Has an insane 400% cp ratio and also slows the enemy. Resets cd of roadie run if not interrupted during sf.
Good aoe damage but leaves saw vulnerable, best used after a to maximize damage and reset cd or from distance catching enemies close to the edge of its range. Using it in a safe position is very important especially later on as it gives you full stacks which is needed to maximize ult damage, safe enough to survive but close enough to engage with ult. Missing this ability is also a green light to engage for the enemy.
Mad cannon( C )
Saw’s final ability, loads shells which can stack upto 10, which replace saws basic attack until they run out. His real consistent damage which needs to be combo’d well with his A and B to utilize well. Deals a solid 15% missing health damage at all levels and also some splash damage.
Key thing to note here is when out of stacks saws damage in teamfights is not great and even his A+B+A combo might not be enough. Can store stacks and start the ability cd, and late game havin 7+ stacks loaded with the ability off cd saw potentially has 14-16+ stacks (depending on whether you max ult) if kept alive which is no joke. Can take out 2 enemies with relative ease.
Why jungle saw and how to play him there?
Some of the biggest problems faced by a lane cp saw are:
1> Slight difficulty to farm except early game, especially when under pressure which is common with the early meta being supports camped in lane alot.
2> Can be shut down hard by counter picks such as celeste or skaarf and in general is weak to skillshots as he dukes it out in lane at full stacks with basics doing low damage.
3> Suffers from levelling slowly as the jungler hits 6 when hes at 4 and 12 when hes at 10 generally. Even with the steady stream of gold getting to his ult quick and its further levels really helps him. Still a well built late game powerhouse but damage output suffers due to being behind in levels.
So cp jungle you say? They wont see that coming and will expect saw to be in lane. Having a celeste skaarf is still bad against him but he can handle them much better when he doesnt have to face them directly.
So how to play cp saw in the jungle, wouldnt wp be better to farm? Maybe get a banner? Nope. Its important to remember that saw at full stacks is a powerhouse even at level 1. He can farm quick and do good damage but is not very mobile.
My preferred starting items are a weapon blade and a crystal bit. 2 weapon blades are an option but they will need to be sold anyway. While farming in jungle positioning is important especially early on. Saw can straight up engage into any enemy and win as long as he doesnt get jumped on without stacks. Use A to reposition or chunk down an enemy and then B to slow them and get full stacks before they get to you. That speed with a weapon blade is good damage early followed with a shank means your not leaving dead and empty handed in a teamfight when played well.
Jungle Rotations
The first rotation I prefer upgrading B and starting at backs, this allows me to clear the first 3 camps quick and head towards mid treant to contest it or rotate to lane to gank. Starting at fronts is also potentially an option but in this case dont upgrade A or B. Build stacks on one of your fronts and plan your next move based on the enemies position. Contesting the mid treant is easy for saw as long as enemies dont jump on him right as he starts it and he can shank to secure it. Understand how much damage your shank does and avoid the embarassing moment when you leave the treant at one hp and the enemy graciously accepts your gift. (RIP MOMENT)
After this towards mid game, saw can farm with great efficiency. Most optimal way is shanking the back treant, moving down then back up so the treant is in line with double backs and then sf all 3. Towards mid game this is enough to clear all 3 but basic attack the rest and walk a slight bit to the front treant. When close enough use A to shank it (saw can sprint a fair bit before having to shank) and then basic attack and use sf on final shop camp. Saw can shank when rooted never forget. And stealing a contested mid treant is a walk in the park. Getting caught farming can be fatal and tri bush vision is important. Invading into 1 v 1’s after second buy when everyone else is in lane can help catch an enemy out with the burst but most commonly can steal farm.
Rotate to lane as needed because shank from bush op and dont hesitate engaging on even the roam if laner is too far and roam is derping around because he can be burst down quick. (Pro tip - Shank enemy in such a way that you rollback into a wall, which leaves you closer to B and maybe even a follow up shank, for example in lane ardan is just above your bush, so you shank him with the kraken pit being the opposite direction, and you end up right beside him at the wall. Can also be used to completely block escape by rollback towards enemy lane but with no vision its risky positioning) Otherwise farm farm farm. Invade early if enemy rotates all to lane and clear backs quick and port. Use his early farm clear and mobility with A to your advantage. Hit level 6 and load up stacks, and head out to pressure lane. At current potential working towards an sg and some cd you have A+B+5 stacks to seige the level 4 enemy laner and can deal with even the jungler if he pops up. Push an advantage here if possible and move to secure farm or an objective. Load stacks when possible and farm well so your using minimum stacks on farming and storing them to use when you rotate and also putting your ult on cd.
If your doing well you hit level 12 before anyone and reach saw’s overdrives which make him that much stronger and with a bm no matter the build choice he is a massive threat, capable of mowing through an entire team while being highly mobile as well. His weakness is when he is jumped on without shells and stacks, and does not manage to get away safely with his A. He is also weak at objectives to some extent, with saw being forced to chose to use shells on an objective to push/clear it faster or to save shells for the teamfight right after or for example when defending kraken whether to use shells on her or on enemy as they engage. Shells down = Weaker saw.
Build and Overdrives
I’ll keep this short since this has got longer than expected, for builds as mentioned earlier I start off with a weapon blade and crystal bit, focusing on boots, hourglass and sg early game. His high cp ratios make sg a very nice choice. Then towards mid game half way to bm, maybe T2 boots if not now then next buy, cronograph and a reflex block. Need to watch energy a bit can buy a battery if you want. Then towards late game I’m at sg, bm, T2 boots, cw, reflex and working towards aegis if needed. Last item eve, can be got before cw depends on your preference. Hc is also good somewhere towards late but jb also fine if needed.
All of saw abilities provide good incentive to be maxed out, with both the A and B getting a nice chunk of damage increase on the overdrive and the C giving 9 instead of 7 stacks with a lower cd. I prefer A and C because I feel thats from where most of my damage comes from, but the B overdrive is significant. Consider it if B is easy to land (Immobile enemy - funnily enough, another saw). I prefer C because late game I stack shells as soon as I spawn and by the time the teamfight kicks off my ult is off cd. I have had teamfights with 10 shells loaded and another 9 available to stack up which is an incredibly strong position to be in if you can engage with full stacks and roam can keep you alive.
Weaknesses
As mentioned earlier, no shells into a teamfight is not great for a cp saw, and can be a hassle at kraken or objective. Also if there was one particular hero I wouldnt want to go up against would be a cath (Pro tip - Shank cath with bubble up get upvoted by everyone no scamz). Otherwise saw can deal with most heros or atleast has outplay potential with his immense burst and wide areas in the jungle compared to being stuck in lane with ganks a threat forever.
Hero Compatibility
Cp jungle works well with the current wp lane meta and saw can work decently with most roams. The top ones would be cath (best because its a denial pick also in rank), ardan and phinn. Can do okay with lyra and fort some potential to be aggressive early and make some plays with lyras kit. Glaive and flicker are okay but cant reliably protect him, and adagio is around the same level dont really fit well.
And well that’s about it. I was 4 elo off vgs and I was trolled by my phinn right from minute 1 because I locked in cp jungle saw last even though I felt it was a nice pick into that draft. So next time you see something off meta feel free to be sceptical but give it a chance, play along or maybe go ahead and try it yourself. Dont try it directly in ranked though. If your a meta nut not even sure why you read this far, but everyone else can try it out and let me know how it goes. If any questions feel free to ask. 