Counter-Guide for each talent


#1

posted in the original Vainglory Forums 13 June 2017 by @seysenvg, archived by @thace

This old post from the original forums could be an on going community project so I have made this a wiki and moved it to the brawl category. Please help pitch in with counters to the missing talents!

Talents have been in the game since the Update 2.5 and I have seen (and wrote some) discussion threads about talents.

This time I have decided to make a guide for countering talents. I may not be able to write all of them at once, so expect some mistakes and I apologize for all of them.

Just because it would be A HUGE visual trash to write them down all one by one, I will make them inside spoilers to make things easier to find.

Adagio

Rare:

  • Mortal Wounds can counter the barrier. If nobody in your team has an ability that applies Mortal Wounds, consider buying Poisoned Shiv.

Epic:

  • Keep Adagio silenced during teamfights. This may help you making him unable to use the advantage of his Talent.

  • Make sure your team has enough defense to stand up against buffed enemies. Usually Coat of Plates will do the job, but it is safer to have Metal Jacket to reduce the damage.

  • Krul’s Weakness stacks applies Weakness to the target, reducing their damage. If Krul starts attacking one of the enemies buffed with Agent of Wrath, the buff will be useless unless Krul gets countered with Atlas Pauldron. Make sure to use Reflex Block against Atlas Pauldron.

Legendary:

  • Mortal Wounds can be used to reduce the healing from the Verse of Judgement.

  • Verse of Judgement can be canceled with stun abilities.

  • Keeping Adagio silenced will counter him as he will not be able to cast his Verse of Judgement for a while.

Alpha

Rare:

  • Atlas Pauldron can be used to counter her passive attack speed boost.
  • Metal Jacket can be bought by the carry to reduce damage by passive weapon damage.

Epic:

  • Mortal Wounds can counter the barrier.

Legendary:

  • Stunning Alpha and running away can be a useful way to get your allies away from the explosion.

  • Krul’s heroic Perk can be used to slow down Alpha to let your allies run away.

  • Shiversteel can also be used to slow down Alpha.

  • Frostburn can be built with ability dependent heroes to slow down Alpha.

Ardan

Rare:

  • Mortal Wounds can be used to reduce the barrier effect. If your team has no ability that can cast a Mortal Wound on enemies, consider buying a Poisoned Shiv to be able to apply Mortal Wounds. Make sure you keep the enemy that Ardan may shield to protect.

  • Try keeping your enemies away from Ardan. This way he will not be able to cast his Vanguardian in time. You can do this simply by knocking off Ardan or stunning/silencing him.

Epic:

  • First of all, Ardan will be dealing more damage, so buy Aegis or Coat of Plates a little early.

  • Reim, Flicker, Lance can root Ardan to prevent him hitting your allies.

  • You can also use Healing Jungle Minion to root Ardan.

  • Lyra can activate her Bullwark to protect her allies inside.

Legendary:

  • You can do the same things that countered his Epic talent.

  • Additionally, Samuel can cast his Oblivion to put Ardan on sleep and avoid waking him up.

  • Sometimes, Blood for Blood will knock you back when you want to run in the opposite direction. Consider buying a Reflex Block to save yourself.

  • Repositioning yourself around Ardan will be a great tactic, as you will be able to manage where you will be knocked to. Always Stutter Step as a ranged hero.

  • A wrong timed Blood for Blood will help you to get out of bad situations. Sometimes your luck will save you.

Baptiste

Rare:

  • Consider buying at least a Kinetic Shield because the talent gives Baptiste damage increase.

  • Have movement speed and react fast. Get out of the AoE before you receive damage and get slowed.

Epic:

  • Apply Mortal Wounds on Baptiste to reduce his healing from Soul Fragments. He will keep collecting Fragments while he is empowered.

  • You can also buy a Poisoned Shiv to apply Mortal Wounds.

  • Baptiste passively gains attack speed. So, you may use Atlas Pauldron to reduce his attack speed.

Legendary:

  • You will need Aegis and Slumbering Husk to reduce the damage you take from Fearsome Shades.

  • Activate Cruicible to prevent the negative effect of the Fearsome Shades.

  • When Baptiste is about to cast his Fearsome Shades, make sure you get out of the abilty’s AoE.

Baron

Rare:

  • Have a Metal Jacket to reduce the damage from the Triple Shot.

  • Lance, Flicker, Reim can root Baron, so he will be unable to jump.

  • Lyra can cast her Bullwark in front of Baron to prevent him from jumping on your carry.

Epic:

  • Have Aegis to reduce damage from the Mortars.

  • Keep him silenced, so he is unable to throw Mortars at your carry.

  • Keep repositioning yourself during the fight and watch where Mortars will land. If Mortars miss you, you don’t receive damage from it.

Legendary:

  • Build Aegis and Slumbering Husk to reduce the damage.

  • Keep him silenced, so he can’t use his Ion Cannon on you and your allies.

  • Don’t stay in one place, as doing this will increase the risk of you getting hit by one of the Ion Cannons. React fast when you see where the Ion Cannon will hit.

Blackfeather

Rare:

  • Building Atlas Pauldron can be a great way to counter his passive attack speed bonus.

  • Have your Coat of Plates early in the game to minimize the damage you take from Blackfeather.

Epic:

  • Have movement speed and always reposition yourself during fights. If Blackfeather doesn’t hit you, he does not protect his allies with a barrier.

  • Apply Mortal Wounds on Blackfeather and his allies. This way you can reduce the barrier from the ability.

  • Consider building Poisoned Shiv to apply Mortal Wounds, in case your teammates can’t apply Mortal Wounds frequently.

Legendary:

  • Flicker, Lance, Reim can root Blackfeather before he can use his Rose Offensive.

  • If Lyra casts her Bullwark around Blackfeather, he is unable to cast his Rose Offensive

  • Keep him silenced. If he is silenced, he can’t use not only Rose Offensive, but anything else.

Catherine

Rare:

  • Keep Catherine silenced, so she can’t stun/silence you to gain Stacks and get damage bonus.

  • Consider having a Kinetic Shield or a Coat of Plates early at the game.

Epic:

  • Activate Atlas Pauldron around Catherine. If she can’t attack, she can’t get a cooldown bonus.

Legendary:

  • Have a Reflex Block, or even a Cruicible to stand up against the knockback.
Celeste

Rare:

  • Build Kinetic Shield early to minimize the damage you take from Heliogenesis.

Epic:

  • Have a Cruicible or Aegis to stand up against the Stun and the damage.

Legendary:

  • Have movement speed and don’t stand near the Heliogenesis Stars.

  • Build Aegis a little early to minimize the damage you take from Heliogenesis.

  • Keep her silenced, so she can’t cast Heliogenesis as often.

Flicker

Before everything, if a team has Flicker, you should build a Contraption to spread vision all around the battlefield.

Rare:

  • Keep Flicker silenced, so he can’t cast Binding Light as often.

  • Build Kinetic Shield early to minimize the damage you take.

Epic:

  • Build a Frostburn with ability dependent heros to slow him down.

  • Activate Cruicible to protect your allies from the root.

  • Shiversteel can also slow him down.

Legendary:

  • Mortal Wounds can be applied on Flicker and his allies to reduce the healing.
Fortress

Rare:

  • Consider building Coat of Plates a little early at the game. You would want to upgrade it to Atlas Pauldron to reduce Fortress’s attack speed bonus from the talent.

  • Reim, Flicker, Lance can root Fortress to make him unable to use Truth Of Tooth.

  • Lyra can activate Bullwark to prevent him from using his Truth Of Tooth.

  • If Fortress plays Captain, Samuel can put him into sleep and avoid waking him up.

Epic:

  • Focus on Fortress’s wolves first. Usually WP carries, such as SAW, Ringo, Vox, Baron can take down the wolves easily. Once the wolves are all dead, Fortress looses his critical chance bonus.

  • Don’t forget the main fights while focusing on the wolves! It is not someone else’s job to kill the wolf attacking you. Also it is not your job to kill the wolf attacking someone else. Once you have killed the wolf attacking you, continue fighting. It only takes 3 Basic Attacks to kill a wolf.

  • Make sure you have a Metal Jacket to reduce the damage you take.

Legendary:

  • Build Aegis and Metal Jacket earlier than usual when you see enemy Fortress with a Legendary talent.

  • Fortress’s wolves grant him stacks of Broken Myth. Out of teamfights, It is all your team’s priority to kill the wolves attacking you and your teammates.

Grumpjaw

Rare:

  • Have movement speed and react fast to the ability. Get out of Grumpjaw’s way so you don’t receive damage from Grumpy.

  • Consider having Kinetic Shield early at the game.

  • Whenever you see Grumpjaw is about to cast his Grumpy to finish off one of your allies, you can use a stun ability to stop Grumpjaw and let your ally run. Krul does this better with From Hell’s Heart, as he can stun from a distance.

  • Have a Reflex Block to block the Slow effect, if you are fleeing.

Epic:

  • Apply Mortal Wounds on Grumpjaw to reduce his healing.

  • Consider building MetalJacket earlier than usual. This way you can reduce the damage you take from Grumpjaw.

  • You may also build Atlas Pauldron to reduce Grumpjaw’s attack speed upon reaching you.

Legendary:

  • Although Grumpjaw holds you longer with Stuffed, the ability is still cancelled if Grumpjaw gets interrupted while eating.

  • You can activate Cruicible to protect your teammates when you see Grumpjaw doing the animations of Stuffed. You can watch his mouth part, as when he casts the ability, Arrow sign appears below his mouth.

  • Grumpjaw can’t retreat while you are inside his stomach.

Gwen

Rare:

  • Gwen will basically use her Skedaddle to refresh her Buckshot Bananza. Wait untill she has used the double Buckshot Bananza. As she will waste her Skedaddle, she is very vulnerable to any negative effects!

  • If Gwen builds WP path, using Buckshot Bananza twice and Skedaddle once will consume nearly half of her base energy (without Halcyon Chargers). Make her to use her Energy, then engage a teamfight.

  • Each Buckshot Bananza will deal 70% of its original damage and if hits you twice, deals 40% more than its original damage. Keep repositioning yourself to increase the chance of her missing you.

Epic:

  • Skedaddle’s duration gets an increase, so don’t waste your Crowd Control abilities on Gwen! Wait a little untill the duration is finished.

  • Consider having Coat Of Plates early in the game to reduce the damage you take.

  • Skedaddle’s cooldown is reduced, so keep an eye on Gwen and try to predict when Skedaddle would not be ready.

Legendary:

  • As this can Stun everyone in your team at once, activate Cruicible when she does the animation of taking cards from her sleeve.

  • You can Stun her while doing the animation of this ability, but you must be very quick as the animation is very short!

Idris

Rare:

  • As Idris gains bonus WP and CP damage, you will want to build Coat of Plates early in the game.

  • Idris’s ranged attacks will deal full WP damage, so he will most likely use a WP build path. Keep this in mind when facing him.

  • Let Idris attack from a range to you as long as it does not prevent you from attacking him. His melee attacks reduce the cooldown of his Shimmer Strike and Shroud Step, while his ranged attacks don’t.

Epic:

  • Idris will throw 3 Chakrams and will try to Shimmer Strike on you to hit you with all 3 of them. Be out of his range when he throws his Chakrams.

  • He will possibly build CP path, so have your Aegis ready earlier than usual.

Legendary:

  • Apply Mortal Wounds on Idris and his allies to reduce the healing.

  • Idris will cast his Shimmer Strike on one of his allies to heal his ally and himself. When he does this, avoid walking around that enemy, as you will receive high WP damage when Idris steps out.

  • Idris will basic attack you and it will reduce the cooldown of Shimmer Strike. As the talent also reduces the cooldown, build Atlas Pauldron to give him a disadvantage.

Reim

In all scenarios, you have to avoid his skillshots.

Ringo

Rare:

  • This ability will slow you from farther distance. Keep your Boots to activate after you are slowed.

Epic:

  • Build Atlas Pauldron to slow down Ringo’s attack speed.

  • As Ringo’s main hits will be doing the major damage, all you can do is to keep a distance between you and Ringo, in case you are not attacking him…

  • Try not engaging teamfights while Ringo has his Twirling Silver active. Keep an eye on the animations and start fighting right when his Twirling Silver is on cooldown.

Legendary:

  • As usual, you will need to Reflex Block to block the fire effect and a portion of the impact damage.

  • Keep an eye under your allies’ feet! If you see a red chamber under one of your allies’ feet, reposition yourself away from them, so Hellfire Brew can’t bounce to you.

  • If you see a red chamber under your own feet, reposition yourself away from both of your teammates.

  • As you receive 75% of the original Hellfire Brew damage, using Reflex Block to block the fire effect will be enough to keep you alive.

  • Make sure you have Slumbering Husk to help you absorb the damage from Hellfire Brew.

Rona

Rare:

  • Consider building Metal Jacket to minimize the damage you take from her passive weapon power bonus.

Epic:

  • Activate Atlas Pauldron to reduce Rona’s attack speed bonus.

  • Basic attacks reduce the cooldown of Into The Fray. Activate Atlas Pauldron near her, so she can’t get the cooldown bonus.

  • Reim, Lance, Flicker can root Rona to make her unable to cast her Into The Fray.
    If Lyra casts her Bullwark around Rona, she can’t cast her Into The Fray.

Legendary:
*Her Red Mist can be cancelled with a stun ability.

  • Samuel can cast his Oblivion on Rona to cancel her Red Mist.

  • Shiversteel can be used to slow down Rona while casting her Red Mist.

  • Ability dependent heros can build a Frostburn to slow down Rona.

  • Keep Rona silenced, so she can’t cast her Red Mist in time.

  • Reim, Flicker, Lance can root Rona making her unable to move while casting Red Mist.

  • Glaive can cast Afterburn to get Rona away from his teammates.

  • Ardan with Knockout Punch talent can push Rona away from his grouped allies as well.

  • When Rona casts Red Mist, get away from her quickly and wait for Red Mist to get on cooldown. That is the time you want to take her down.

Samuel

Rare:

  • His Corrupted Genius perk is boosted on healing. Applying Mortal Wounds can reduce the healing.

Epic:

  • Consider building Reflex Block, or even better, a Cruicible to block Oblivion.

  • You will not wake up upon taking damage while asleep. However, the sleep duration is reduced. Build an Aegis to minimize the damage you take while asleep.

Legendary:

  • Build Aegis to reduce the damage you will be taking from Malice & Verdict and Drifting Dark.

  • Apply Mortal Wounds on Samuel to reduce the bonus healing factor.

  • Keep Samuel silenced, so he will not be able to cast his Drifting Dark as often.

SAW

No matter what talent SAW chooses, it does not change the fact that he is a potato that gets countered easily.

WP SAW:

  • Atlas Pauldron

CP SAW:

  • Movement Speed
  • Aegis
  • Stutter Step

Yep, that’s it…

Skaarf

In all scenarios, have Aegis early and keep Skaarf silenced.

Rare:

  • Have movement speed and react fast to Fireballs.

Epic:

  • Stun abilities can work to cancel the ability, if Skaarf doesn’t use Reflex Block.

Legendary:

  • Have movement speed and reposition yourself away from Goops.
Skye

Rare:

  • Reim, Lance, Flicker can root Skye to prevent her from casting her Suri Strike.

  • Lyra can cast her Bullwark around Skye to make her unable to cast her Suri Strike.

  • Building Frostburn with ability dependent heros will slow her down making her Speed Boost useless.

  • Shiversteel can also be activated to slow down Skye after she used her Suri Strike.

Epic:

  • Consider building Reflex Block or Cruicible to block the Stun.

  • Have movement speed. Death From Above will show where AoE will hit, so get out of there before ability hits you.

  • Keep her silenced, so she will not be able to cast Death From Above so frequently.

Legendary:

  • Build Aegis to reduce the damage you take.

  • Shiversteel can slow her down while firing her Forward Barrage.

  • Ability dependent heros can also build a Frostburn to slow her down.

  • To cancel her Forward Barrage, you can use stun abilities.

Taka

Before everything, Taka is a stealthy assasin. To make it easy to counter him, simply have vision around the battlefield.

Rare:

  • This talent buffs the ability’s damage. Consider building Aegis to reduce the damage.

  • Lyra can activate her Bullwark around Taka to make him unable to cast his Kaiten.

  • Reim, Flicker, Lance can root him before he can cast his Kaiten.

  • Once you see Taka flying in mid-air towards you, run towards his primary position, so he can’t auto-attack you when he lands.

  • Stay out of his vision. He needs to see you to attack you.

Epic:

  • As his invulnerability lasts for 0.8 seconds and his stealth duration is up to maximum of 4 seconds, you can attack him to reveal him for the rest of 3.2 seconds.

  • This talent grants him stronger healing. Apply Mortal Wounds on Taka to reduce his healing.

  • If your team doesn’t have any abilities that can apply Mortal Wounds, consider buying a Poisoned Shiv.

  • Keep him silenced when he can cast his Kaku for 0.8 seconds of invulnerability. This will work as a Reflex Block for him, if he has his Kaiten on cooldown.

Legendary:

  • Have Aegis or Slumbering Husk to minimize the damage you take from Triple X-Retsu, as all three of you can be hit.

  • Have objectives around you, closer than your teammates. If Taka casts Triple X-Retsu on you, he will chain to the closest enemy, in this case, the objective. This may cause him to hit you twice, but it is worth to protect your allies.

  • The chaining can be cancelled with Stun abilities.

  • Make sure you don’t attack Taka (expect for stunning) while he is casting the Triple X-Retsu. Instead, reposition yourself closer to an objective.

Vox

Rare:

  • Reim, Lance, Flicker can root Vox to prevent him from dashing away.

  • Lyra can cast her Bullwark around Vox to make him unable to cast his Sonic Zoom.

  • Keep Vox silenced when he can dash away.

Epic:

  • Mortal Wounds can reduce the barrier.

  • If your teammates don’t have any abilities to apply Mortal Wounds, consider buying a Poisoned Shiv.

  • Atlas Pauldron can be used to reduce his attack speed, making him unable to get barrier frequently.

Legendary:

  • Consider having Aegis to reduce the damage from bouncing Resonance Bolts.

  • Don’t have your team all grouped up in one place. Have a distance between you and your teammates to prevent Resonance Bolts from bouncing.


#2

Several hero guides were not in the original post, including
Glaive
Grace
Joule
Kestrel
Koshka
Krul
Lance
Lyra
Ozo
Petal
Phinn
Reza
Churnwalker
Lorelai
Varya


#3

all these guides are based on a 1v1 situation. It doesn’t consider hero synergy. Some Duo’s are just so strong there aren’t much counter’s to them.

Then there’s trio’s…
Sorry, but these guides really should include hero synergy because it’s more realistic. 1v1 situations really only happen when everyone else is dead.