Your long winded explanation of why you’re right is exactly the same as what we’ve been saying.
Is there an emoji for infinite eye rolls?
You are arguing over terminology, apparently just to argue/be pedantic.
Smh.
3 Likes
Since I already see alot of comments saying they want a more diverse item tree. Ill per pose something a little more smaller.
Make the utility tree more important/impactful or simply remove it and add the infusions to said item branch.
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I agree with @coltonJW on a lot of things but not all
Firstly:
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Definitely think that there’s something to the top lane debate. It’s the hardest lane to play by yourself, more danger, less opportunity for getting essential buffs if you need them, easy for enemies to team up on you in, etc., however I don’t think they need to change the whole design of it so much as remove a few key things that make it harder. For one bush placement. I don’t think they should have two bushes on the left side of the lane, nor do I think they should have one right by the turret on the right side. If they’re going to have one, they should change the other, as it’s a bit too advantageous to the enemy to have all those gank positions and too stressful on your cam reserves, with you having to place cam at your back to avoid jungle invades as well. That’s the main issue with top to me. Besides that, I don’t necessarily think they should (or even will) change the layout. That’s the max difficulty lane and it just is what it is.
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Removing ambient gold is a no go to me. It actually opens up way more avenues to assist teamates who are falling behind and syncs with team lane pushes way too well to not be a thing. I don’t really find much wrong with ambient gold because the tradeoff of all enemies pushing one lane is your teamates should be trying extra hard to steal another and force them to reevaluate. The problem I see is with people trying to hold onto their turret too long and dying in the process, and teamates not taking the lane push advantage to push harder in other lanes, much less the problem of teamates actually coming to help in the lane being pushed. It’s about the decision making, and people just don’t pay attention to the map and make good decisions. That’s not a flaw in design, just bad playing.
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I agree on the buff turrets thing, but when semc did it way back so many people complained and they reverted it. I think that was a bad decision. Turrets are blindly easy to take even early game, especially if enemies are coordinated or you are facing a wp ranged carry, or just wp in general. I think people should deal with a stronger turret defense, as it actually forces teams to coordinate around turret taking and makes taking a turret taking by yourself both a more rewarding goal as well as something easier to prevent when enemies have got the advantage in your lane. I think people got way too mad about this issue not realizing that it has never been fun for the enemy to blow past your turret just because you misstepped and died once: they should have to try. A stronger turret defense also directly helps top and bot laners too, as even if you get tag teamed, you can reliably fall back to your turret as a deterrent. This is not the case now, as enemies casually waltz into turret fire even at the early levels and late game turrets are a joke of a defense point. They should still be defensive chokes and not just a gold boost for the enemy team, which is what they are now.
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More items indeed, however I don’t think items should be restricted to hero class and the like. I think making items less effective on certain heroes is an idea to explore but restricting them altogether defeats the purpose of diversity. Just because an item may be weaker on a certain hero doesn’t mean they can’t leverage it in a certain playstyle or to counteract certain enemy builds by lategame. I do think there needs to be more diversity in energy items in general, and especially for captains.
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Journey boots aren’t that bad now that the cooldown has been increased, however I do think that the idea of reducing cc effect like lessening slow or shortening stun is a novel idea! However other boots would have to have their abilities tweaked in kind because the kind of advantage this would give to all players would make other boots basically only situational.
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I like the more objectives/morphing objectives idea. It would make the game much more dynamic. Once you know where the objectives are placed it becomes a camp fest to get to them, especially late game. Having dynamic objectives would force players to be more strategic. I once posed an idea about having a moving river objective that could be used both offensively and defensively, and I think the idea of somewhat random objectives spawning in certain places on the map would benefit everyone looking to gain a quick boost. One idea I have is to have a jungle monster that is tougher than other jungle monsters spawn and roam the jungle, and if found and captured, helps either the bot lane or top lane minion push. This would help when you’re low on team help but have the strength and timing to unlock, and force enemies to rethink full team lane ganks, as well as help catch up on enemy turret take downs if your lane has been pushed to its last remaining turrets, and comes with a challenge as well.
All in all there are a lot of other suggestions I would give rogue but these are just in response to the OP. Rogue has a LOT to fix going forward.
In actuality @hazeleyes I think it would be a good idea to make a post where we could all list down our suggestions for bettering the game and you admins could curate it and put it in a list of requests from the community here for the game that is simplified and to the point, a list that maybe we vote on for importance and what is most likely to work/be implemented, etc. so that if one day Rogue developers do decide to interact with this community in a way semc decided not to, it would be easy to find and digest for them. This thread could be the start of it maybe, but I definitely think the admins should be the ones to curate it for repeat suggestions or wildly outlandish ones by community standards, etc.
2 Likes
We’ve actually discussed this idea, but you guys are way ahead of us (as usual) — please keep putting up ideas and suggestions! Then we can do just as you say, which is to try to assemble them into something that we can share with Rogue through whatever channel may be available.
6 Likes
The point is, there is no way to make the map “not mirrored” as op suggests without fundamentally changing game mechanics. There is no “flip button” that they can just revert to make things normal MOBA. You’d have to make the jungle significantly more difficult for lanes to take early game, and make early game objective that distinguish ghost lane from Blackclaw lane pre Ghostwing spawn. That’s really the main tenant of the current meta, before ghost spawns the side lanes are identical, so jungle priority rules.
Implying that the map and currently flipped and can be “unflipped” is misleading. The map is identical to every other MOBA, almost painfully so, it’s the implementation of specific objectives and mechanics that creates the current meta.
@coltonJW That took a minute to wrap my head around for a second 
I will admit I may have chuckled when I read @hazeleyes infinite eye roll comment, however I genuinely enjoyed that tidbit of VG information that I never really paid attention to. 
2 Likes
I just like seeing @Moose popping back up in the forums. Missed ya, pal - hope all is well!
I do think, while sharing ideas and content is always great, it’s a futile discussion regarding whether or not VG will continue a mirrored map or get rid of it. They will not change it. Zero chance. It would take dramatic efforts, after a transitional phase of management of the game. The VG map will remain unchanged. What they will likely work on is UI/out-of-game experience, cleaning up bugs, and introducing new heroes and skins.
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Missed everyone here as well - a bit off topic but I had a pretty bad health scare and it took me a while to get back on my feet.
On topic, my honest opinion of what they’ll actually work on is just adding heroes and skins, while maybe touching up some bugs. I don’t believe Rogue will jump right in on VG’s issues, rather keep the game in maintenance mode like SEMC did, while adding their flair to the game (i.e. UI, bigger bugs, etc) will be done slowly and at a later date.
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Deleting the FoR from the game is not healthy for the game itself IMO. Why? It would make poke comps insanely strong, and most mobas compensate it with most heroes having some short of healing, which VG can’t afford. Deleting FoR might be one of the biggest mistakes.
Note: FoR is not OP.
While I agree fountain shouldn’t be removed, it’s not for the same reasons as you.
Fountain isn’t a particularly potent tool at countering poke comps. With its long Cooldowns, and most effective use in the middle of a fight when everyone is low. Using it to heal up after being poked is rare, and would usually lead to loss of the next fight if the enemy saved their fountain.
In short, it’s effect on the strength of poke is on the whole fairly neutral.
Fountain is a designed fo be a clutch team saving tool. It encourages teams to stick together around their captain, and makes damage sharing especially effective because if you can rotate damage until most of your team is low, then fountain, you will get the most out of the item. The mechanic of increased healing at lower HPs is also just fun, and adds a lot of skill.
Also: fountain is OP. It is mandatory as a first or second item in every captain build, and not including it is = automatic failure in your role. It works on every single hero, in every match up, every game. It’s just as OP as old Aegis when it was purchased on every carry. Fountain needs both a nerf, and compelling alternatives.
Hey not saying I WANY FoR removed, but I can understand where that kind of suggestion can come from
I think i may have found a bug but I want to attempt to record it.
Everyone keeps saying this, but I don’t see why it has to be like that. Just because other moba (LoL) metas have a duo in botlane doesn’t mean VG’s meta has to be like that too. When you pick your role in the draft of a match in VG, the captain position is in midlane, which actually makes far more sense to me for this game, mainly because of the river speed boost. There’s no reason it shouldn’t be 1v1 in top and bot lanes and 2v2 in mid, allowing mirror map to function.
So I totally agree with expanding the item tree, but I’d like to ask for clarification here. Do you mean remove utility items, or just put them elsewhere? Or did you mean the “others” branch? I mean they all get used… But I’d suggest putting the scout cam upgrades into utility and as you say, adding infusions to their respective branches.
4 Likes
Fontain and Crucible are so strong because are the only ones that have some short of impact, Rooks decree impact is pretty low (seriously, when was the fisrt time that barrier saved any ally?) and not everybody can use it effectively, Capacitor’s plate is the same, only for specific heroes… we need more captain items that works for every captain and have real impact.
Well something needs to be done to help top lane out a bit. Maybe give them some more jungle camps or something and add a bit more importance to the top jungle. That way, it can add a bit more incentive for the jungler to go up there or at least give the top lane a bit more farm
Whoops I meant the “other” tab. Pretty much shows how irrelevant it is to remember and honestly they should remove it actually.
Tbh all i want is quality of life changes and some changes that would give players an incentive to play the game. Fix bugs like broken Eu chats and the abscence of dodging penalties those are really frustrating. And it might be just me but the amount of freezes i get during a game has increased greately, i used to get just one freeze when jungle camps spawn and thats it for the game. Adding a progression system with a battle pass and rank rewards to give players the motivation to play. Really if rogue works on these points i believe they would have done a great job. Also what is it with people wanting buffs to defensive items ? Tanks literally rule the meta in high elo, every game there is at least 2 to 3 full tank/utility heroes per side and they’re really obnoxious cause they’re tanky as hell, do damage and they’re full of cc.
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I want more utility defense items for diversity in captain build paths. I think the problem with tanky comps is an issue that derives from problems with the map itself as well as ambient gold enabling these comps
The issue with tanks is what i stated above, they’re tanky, deal damage and full of cc. Plus when you have heroes like samuel/celeste kinetic etc… then just a mid laner and a bot laner as your only damage dealers are more than enough.
Yeah I feel like base damage needs to take some kind of hit and increase ratios for some heroes in addition to adding new items or CC reduction on those that are still strong, but in THAT department instead of damage (For non-captains at least) like Tony or something
1 Like