5v5 needs a comeback mechanic?


#1

Well hello there - I guess I’m new, in a way, so I’ll do a quick intro (which you can optionally skip cuz it’s just some background really just go to paragraph 3). I’ve been playing for around 2 years and am a really huge fan of the game. I was especially addicted to it last year during the days of 3v3. During the 5v5 “preview” if you will during Worlds, I was like many of you hyped af, I was expecting it to be a hit and to grind for hours and hours with my friends.

Although I still play on a regular basis 5v5 feels almost underwhelming for me, the fire that burnt inside when I played disappeared. And along with it some very close friends I’ve made along the way, as they experienced the same thing.

This was somewhat inspired by @Sandiha’s rant if you will. I think one of the most annoying aspects of 5v5 is the lack of a comeback mechanic. From the manymanymany VPL Preseason games, I’ve only seen 1 game (I watch all of them but I can only recall 1) where a team made a comeback from a bad deficit, and that was partly caused by the Lorelai of the leading team experienced noticeable connection issues.

In the days of 3v3, a teamwide lvl disadvantage was impactful, to say the least. But now in 5v5, a teamwide lvl disadvantage is just insanely hard if even possible to overcome. Doing a comeback in 3v3 was hard to do yet not impossible. When you watch competitive 3v3 games, you don’t go “meh it’s gg already as long as TSM doesn’t throw” like in that VONC Petal game during Worlds, when Armada almost made a comeback. You can feel the intensity of the game.

Nowadays, I watch teams get a 1-7 lead, capture a Ghostwing, and that’s just it if they play it clean. The next few minutes are just a period a starvation for the team suffering from the deficit. You can’t really do anything when the opposing team memorizes the spawn time of your buffs and gives them a friendly visit when they spawn.

Treant after treant and buff after buff you get choked of experience. As a former jungle main I suffered from this the most as the jungler of the team that’s behind almost always has a major lvl deficit which makes his impact barely noticeable.

You just can’t do a comeback unless the opposing team does some really bad mistakes. I probably witnessed 2 comebacks so far on stream/Youtube and ingame combined?

The possibility of a comeback provides much needed intensity in a game in which a team has a sizeable lead over the other and it’s IMO missing from the game, do you agree? If so, what do you think SEMC can do to make comebacks more possible?


#2

Oh and not to mention that “kill me” feeling when you have 2 armories down with the Vain being quite squishy and having 2 lanes constantly pushed against you…


#3

did you watch the recent VPL invitationals? lots of teleport boots back door invasion to secure the win.

Teleport boots is your answer to a come back mechanic. it’s just very hard to do, but possible, as proven recently, on multiple occasions.


#4

armories should respawn like league inhibitor imo, that way youre not just waiting in base praying they make mistakes bigger than invading russia in winter


#5

Totally possible to solo it too with a wp grace


#6

Me, personally have also successfully back doored when my whole team was defending the base, with a SAW, because i pushed bottom lane so hard i sneaked in and Laid down a tonn of critical damage to secure the win.

i din’t get teleport boots tho, I sneaked through the jungle. and waited for the minion spawn to pass.

I remember it was a really clutch win, as the enemy had koshka going hard on our crystal the same time i was attacking theirs… lol

Their Vox teleported back to stop me, but it was All OVER, Popped my flask and shield to keep alive, BOOM, shattered.

Edit: It was solo queue. Ranked.


#7

I had top Lane pushed with work Gwen down to the armory my midlaner got bumrushed after I got destroyed in enemy base. I bought teleport boots used them to my hidden scout cam and destroyed 1 more armory than the vain while my team was 4v5 at our armory. Honestly it wouldn’t of worked well if my enemies had map awareness as no one even tried to fallback


#8

yeh, map awareness is so important. VPL EU is streaming live now by the way…


#9

I used to agree but if you watch TSM get beaten this weekend you could argue comebacks are possible…


#10

These are pro players tho, trying to coordinate a 5 man backdoor in soloQ is impossible. I don’t think I’ve even seen anyone but teleport boots in any of my matches yet lol


#11

You don’t need a 5 man backdoor and usually is counterproductive as a back door can be built by splitpushing during a team fight


#12

Hi and welcome!

I just wanted to make the comment that I largely agree with you, and I’ve experienced the same letdown with the release of 5v5. I just don’t enjoy it the way that I enjoyed 3v3. I’ve thought a lot about why that is, and I think that it is because 5v5 does not feel like Vainglory … it’s truly a completely different game. (Aside: I think they might have been better off releasing 5v5 as a separate app. That way, it would be clear that an entirely new mindset is required, and they could have created a separate set of stats/abilities/etc. for our favorite heroes in the new game, leaving the 3v3 balance intact and still enjoyable for players who preferred that version of the game.)


#13

Before it even gets to the event of the enemy inside the base attacking the armouries, throughout the match, you should get a sense if you’re winning or losing.

If you’re losing, it’s time to split push and take turrets down. You need at least 1 lane pushed back for a successful back door attempt.

It means abandoning the team fights and really trying hard to bring every turret down. Good luck! It ain’t easy!


#14

Teleport boots just scream BACKDOOR. It’s such a clutch item. Hard push a lane, wait for enemies to march on your base, teleport to the pushed lane, race to the crystal. It’s a win-win situation, because either nobody teleports bsck home to stop you or they do and the amount of enemies attacking your side dwindles for a short period of time.


#15

Comebacks in that match by rogue or by TSM? TSM managed to comeback because they punished a mistake by rogue and got three dragons in a row, it wasn’t exactly a comeback when rogue won as they had a firm advantage early on which they messed up a bit. Comebacks still depend a lot on the GW buff, every team which started snowballing or which makes a comeback needs the GW buff to do so


#16

Not when implementing the backdoor philosophy especially in soloq as most the time your teammates just want to team fight anyways so you let them team fight while thinking you are trolling till you solo the vain