4 old heroes need changes and reworks. I'm callin' it

Those heroes are lemme check: Blackfeather, Glaive, Ringo, SAW. I know what I’m doin’ trust me.


•Reason: after all of the nerfs he has taken, Blackfeather (or I should say NerfFeather) has been pretty weak compared to his older self. He’s still viable as a counter pick though but now his power has dropped down a lot. These changes are to give him back the power of his old days.
*A: Feint of Heart:
-New (but this to be honest part is old AF): now the target will leave behind a Rose Trail (yay, it’s back boiiiesss) for 4s. Basic attack on the target will refresh the Rose Trail duration. (This will only be a visual effect though.)
*B: On Point:
-New: now will apply a slow on all of the target it hits based on the target’s missing health if he build WP, capped at 400 WP and at 50% slow.
-New: at 200 CP, this ability will apply basic attack effects.
+% Slow on % Missing health: 0% +2% WP.
+CP ratio is reduced from 180% to 125%.
•My comment on the changes: so as everyone knows, I’m hating all of the core mechanic removes so here you go, the original Blackfeather but with mechanics that must be unlocked depending on the paths you pick. If you pick the WP path then beware all assasins with stealth abilities, you are gonna get killed pretty soon if you stay near Blackfeather since your favorite duelist has made more than enough money for the Rose Trail to reveal you. If you pick the CP path then you are a true mid-late game poke warrior since now you have the ability to deal Aftershock damage with of course the exchange of early game damage.


•Reason: In Vainglory currently, Glaive is pretty weak to be honest. I miss the good old days of him in patches like 1.20 to pre 2.0. He was a God but now looking at Glaive, he’s just meh. And he’s got the weakest damaging ultimate in the entire game (this thing is a goddamn joke in damage). So I’m gonna change him. Buff him up a bit to meet the current gameplay style.
*B: Twisted Stroke:
-New: now every basic attack will reduce its cooldown by 0.5s. Each Bloodsong stack will increase this by 0.05s.
*Ult: Bloodsong:
-New: Now deals bonus CP damage based on the missing health of the enemy for every Bloodsong stack:
+% Missing health per stack: 0.5%/1%/1.5%
+Bonus lifesteal per stack is reduced from 1.2% to 0.75%.
•My comments on the changes: these changes are for a more aggressive Glaive playstyle. Also, players now must be aware of the current stack number for maximum damage output. Now his playstyle will be a little bit more like an assasin: Afterburn in, mixing in a Twisted Stroke if your hand is fast enough, basic attack then activate Bloodsong to mop up any low health enemies caught in its AOE. However this execution damage addition is balanced by the reduction of bonus lifesteal.


•Reason: Ringo gets overshadowed by EVERY. DAMN. ADCs. in Vainglory. He’s fine and a good pick all the time but he just gets overshadowed by every ADCs. Vox has a higher pick rate and is favored by a lot if not all pros due to his slipperiness and his kiting ability, Gwen our thick queen gets a higher pick rate due to the 140% WP she got 2 patches ago, Skye due to her slipperiness just like Vox, Kestrel due to the 360° no scope BS and of course my boi just flat out destroys him in pure damage and range. So this is to make him more appealing to pick and of course to meet not only my but everyone’s request: his perk rework
*Perk: Double Down: now after every 4 basic attacks his 5th basic attack will be a double shot basic attack that will also maim (reduce attack speed) the target by 15% for 2s.
•My comment on the changes: this will promote perfect kiting and shot management from Ringo players. He will deal a lot of damage but pros will make the most out of his damage output.


•Reason: Ah SAW, this is the I don’t know, maybe 10th time I post a SAW rework but really, SAW as a hero is just a meme. He never ever makes it out of the competitive scene alive and the one patch I see him actually work in competitive play is 2.9.1, the OP AF 127 base WP damage per shot 100% British powerhouse SAW that can melt turret faster than Bastion in Overwatch melts supports like Mercy. He’s a dream come true for noobs but is a dream target for pros to attack so here you go. This is the rework after hours of taking suggestions from YOU, my friend and self-research that will put SAW into the competitive scene and will make him weaker to use by noobs.
-HP is increased from 683 (+121.8 HP per level) to 687.5 (+137.5 per level).
-Base attack speed is reduced from 100% (+1% per level) to 100%.
-Attack range is reduced from 6.6m to 6.2m.
*Perk: Spin Up: (Reworked version)
-Before attacking any target at 0 stack, SAW must spin his barrel up before firing for 1.8s, gaining 1 stack for every 0.15s. SAW can only attack at 12 stacks.
-Time before stack loss is reduced from 3.5s to 1.2s.
-Bonus attack speed per stack is reduced from 18% to 10%.
-Movement speed reduction per stack is changed from 0.12m/s to 1%.
-SAW won’t stop basic attacking when he moves. Tap on the target a second time, switching target or casting an ability will stop SAW attacking his current target.
-Now each of his basic attack will shoot out 10 bullets with each bullet dealing 10% of the basic attack damage. (To better fit the visual effects).
*B: Suppressing Fire: (Reworked version)
-Now SAW can move 30% (-15% WP) slower (upon the movement speed reduction above) while this ability is active.
-No longer reset Roadie Run’s cooldown.
-SAW can tap on a target to lock the Suppressing Fire on a target. This will make secondary targets in the AOE take only 50% of the damage.
-This ability will deal empowered basic attacks with CP damage.
-CP will increase the range of this ability up to a maximum of 8.5m and will increase the slow up to a maximum of 35%.
+Range is reduced from 12m to 6.5m +1% CP.
+CP DPS is reduced from 120/170/220/270/370 +220% CP to 50/100/150/200/250 +225% CP.
+Empowered basic attack damage: 105%/105%/105%/105%/115%.
+Slow is reduced from 45% to 10%/10%/10%/10%/15% +10% CP.
*Ult: Mad Cannon: (Reworked Version)
-Now SAW will load special cannon shells into his gun up to a maximum of 3 shells then fire all of them at once at a target, dealing empowered basic attacks with CP damage.
-This ability has 6 charges.
-SAW can only load these shells in after he has stopped attacking for 4.5s (-1.5% WP).
-These shells will have extra range and it can be increased with CP up to a maximum of 8m.
+Attack range increase: 0.2m/0.2m/0.45 +0.5% CP.
+Cooldown: 6s.
+Energy cost: 50/75/100.
+Recharge time: 20s.
+Empowered basic attack damage: 115%/120%/130%.
+CP damage: 25/50/75 +115% CP.
•My comment on the changes: these changes I have calculated very carefully. First up, before saying anything, run a combat simulation in your mind with these changes before saying anything, done yet? Let’s get to the changes. So with these changes, I’ll split the paths up even more, turning WP SAW into a CQC man mower (that’s the reason behind his basic attack range reduction to be equal to Ringo, Gwen, Kestrel) and CP SAW into an assasin. How you may ask? Well, with CP SAW, it’s all in his ultimate. You load 3 shells in, then you wait in a bush for a squishy then unload all 3 shells and finish the enemy of with a Roadie Run. For WP SAW, he can now pop surprise Cannon shells while CP can’t (only one shell every 6s, don’t worry) and use the Suppressing Fire to mow down enemy. Beware since your attack range is now 6.2m, same as the majority of the ADCs, they will be able to kite you back, forcing you to get even closer to your enemies and getting you killed. However, you will be much faster compared to the old SAW so don’t worry about getting out of the fight. (Ps: now WP Ringo’s DPS at level 12 if he overdrives his B and turns it on will be higher than WP SAW. Recheck it. I do this on purpose)


SAW needs a rework. or to be deleted from the game. I really couldn’t care which.
Blackfeather I’m not even gonna comment on, I haven’t really kept up with what SEMC have done to him (which is a bit bad of me but I can deal with him, so that’s fine imo)
Ringo and Glaive just need a Buff. Altho I do like the cooldown reduction per BA on Glaive’s Twisted stroke, I feel all he really needs is some buffs to his ult.
And Ringo… I dunno. My problem with him is that he has no skillshots, so he can’t hit enemies outside his vision. And maybe make his CP path clearer, and buff his WP path.

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No skillshots. Mmm fascinating. Lemme go back to the cutting board.

No skillshots is a strength not a weakness… He cannot miss a single attack while being slippery himself.

No skillshots helps him trade vs skillshot heroes who can miss attacks because he dodges them…


He’s not complaining about the lack of power but because of the lack of skill it needs. Target skills are still powerful AF.

I feel like you don’t understand the difference between a buff and a rework. A rework exists separate from balancing and is a change to that heroes kit and how they play, a buff makes a hero stronger.

Blackfeather doesn’t need a rework or a buff as he is one of the strongest dive heroes in 3.2, and plays really well after the rework he already got.


Honestly i don’t think you understand the hell a rework does to the game and how it is a last resort balancing too as a rework completley screws up all the counters and then they need a fix causing more counters for them fixed until you end up changing all the heros just for 1. Not to mention after all the changes the rework is obsolete


-bring back the rose trail
That’s it. BF is already a monster also tweak him so he plays like an assassin not as everyone says a fast bruiser
I agree although glaive is a momster against squishies he is outclass by every jungler in game. Make his ult into an execute. So when he goes in its not gonna be get a kill or get blown up.
Dunno why but ringo is fine for me maybe change the perk but the rest of his kit is fine.
No comment.


@coltonJW @Satanicsoldier I think I’m gonna go with Dooge for the changes. Ok folks.
Ps check the title. It clearly says changes and or reworks.

Make saw even slower? Then you wouldn’t need any kind of stun for him cuz he is basically already stunned :confused:

The only thing I agree is on the way his perk activates so he can’t spam the shit out of your Turret in the first 3 minutes. Eventually saw will run out of energy and will have to think wisely when to activate his perk instead of your typical push to win

Thoughts on your changes:

BF - Rose Trail will destroy the 3 stealth characters. BF doesn’t need a slow. He has a gap closer on his A and two on his Ult.

Glaive - You realize that based on you % heath numbers a 2SG Glaive with 20 stacks removes 45% of enemies health in an AOE around him? Glaive is meant to be a lane ganker and does that well against immobile heroes. The armor and shield nerfs hurt him because he is a sustain hero and also a burst ganker without two movement abilities. All he needs is the same lvl 1 damage as most melee heroes 77-83 instead of 70.

Ringo - your change will destroy Ringo’s laning. He gets a crit basically every other AA. You change that to every 5th? It makes him more late game viable, but he is going to get pushed under turret and lose his one advantage.

SAW - SAW doesn’t need a rework. If anything he needs a 0.1 range increase.

Overall your changes are unnecessary and unbalanced.


Maybe give the rose trail a duration or like if they go outside BF’s range they will lose the trail. Or somethin like that. :thinking:

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I love these memes… ahem i mean balancing threads


Do you even read the notes clearly? I changed him that at max 12 stacks his movement speed is reduced by 12%. That’s a whole lot faster.

  1. BF: that’s to make him their counters
  2. Glaive: his ult is far too useless now but I think I should remove the CP ratio.
  3. Ringo has a crit shot after he has killed something not every other basic attack. Do you even play the game?
  4. You mustn’t have played SAW extensively as I have. Everyone here knows that SAW is utterly underpowered and considered as a joke of a hero. He has zero range, he moves slower than a ball of lard and he’s squishier than a tissue paper

Yeah maybe… I’ve just always felt more comfortable playing something like Kestrel or Skaarf, with whom I can fire off A’s into bushes and still hit enemies. It’s the main reason I never liked playing Ringo, as soon as enemies go out of Range or into a bush there’s nothing you can do.

Umm BF is perfectly fine This text will be blurred

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BF - vision and Fortress already counters these heroes. They don’t need another counter.
Glaive - You clearly didn’t think through your concept.
Ringo - When laning a Ringo will pretty much kill a lane creep with every other basic attack. That allows him to clear lane quickly and also poke an enemy with crits.
SAW - Everyone knows you one tricked SAW when he was really strong in 2.12. Just find a new hero to one trick.


Problem is, what if he isn’t clearing waves but is engaging in teamfights and there aren’t creeps? Making something useful that’s active at every point of the match is my point here. I commented up there that this is for perfect kiting, mainly in teamfights.

Uh wut? Explain this to me please?