Why the nerfs to Blackfeather?

Glaive - you’re right, BF can probably outtrade him. He can’t win against Alpha, and certainly not against Rona, teamfight or 1v1. I haven’t met a good ozo yet so I can’t comment, though I imagine ozo will win unless BF buys PS. Whether he does damage or not Krul will win against a BF, although I do agree in teamfights BF has the upper hand especially late game. CP Baptiste will probably lose 1v1 but WP can easily out-sustain him. Grumpjaw destroys him early-mid, late game BF has the upper hand. Like you I haven’t played against a particularly good Tony so I can’t comment on that either.

All this^ is for WP BF, CP is slightly different and does a little better into bruisers - but Rona destroys both build paths.

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Cp Bf suffered hard from recent and not so recent changes so he’s more of an anti-squishy now but WP on the other hand is the same hero except for the bad chase potential. Ozo winning 1v1 is like pretty damn impossible, if anything he would have some chance in a teamfight not 1v1 and even there would lose most of the time. Rona as I said depends on other factors but if you know how to exploit your advantages and get ahead you can beat her easily (It’s not as easy to get the advantage though, but not the hardest thing either). Alpha needs to snowball very very hard to be able to 1v1 him and he should never lose early game that hard. I don’t have problems against Alphas, you just need to know how to outplay her. Krul as I said even though most of the game you can’t 1v1 gets destroyed in team fights and Bf can escape easily so not a big threat except for early game. Grumpjaw no, he could kill bf at around lvl 1-4 IF he actually lands A and Bf is pretty fast. But have you even tried GJ after nerfs? His A is pretty useless. No way you should be losing to him. I main Bf for more than 2 years and to be honest don’t fear any of those heroes. If you just know how to play against them. Now I’m not saying they can’t win against Bf, just saying they shouldn’t be winning especially 1v1 (exception for Krul).

Old bf would have been the best malene counter, the hero who could have chased the most slippery carry in the game now can’t even chase a ringo properly

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You’ve obviously got more experience and sound like a more skilled BF than I’ll ever be so I guess I have to concede lol. But WP BF is certainly not the same hero, his execute ratio was completely removed which is a huge change. Like I said I don’t know anyone who plays Ozo well, but I thought his sustain would make him win, idk. If you can win 1v1 against Rona that’s awesome, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve outdueled her in a 1v1. Ever tried laning against her? What a nightmare. In my experience Alpha has always been able to outtrade me.

Yeah Malene kit is sick, but she has a high skill cap (I’ve still not mastered her)…

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So does bf. A shitty bf gets kited to death. A good bf will know how to stick. But now that same good bf cant stick to targets. Assasins are supposed to do do damage and get out. Assasins arent supposed to keep trying to AA targets.

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BF doesn’t have to chain skills like Malene, he isn’t a high skill cap player, his kit is pretty self explanatory.

She’s the mos complex hero in VG, knowing when to be in various forms etc is incredible important.

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There’s just some things you need to do. I just feel like most people just fear Alpha. If people played normally without fear they would do much better against her. But Wp BF just outsustains her. Cp Bf can snowball her (in 3v3, can’t talk about 5v5 here). Ozo is not a good 1v1 hero. Even if we ignore that Bf can outsustain him in 1v1, Ozo can not actually use his B. In practice game aka full builds and like 4-5 offense Rona would most likely always win. In real game though, Blackfeather has very strong lane phase compared to Rona (She is strong too but when they lane against each other Bf has the advantage because of B mainly). I don’t play 5v5 as much as 3v3 but I played a few games as jungle WP Bf and in one of them I was against Alpha, Rona, Glaive, and GJ (he was roam though) and really no one could do anything. I’m not judging only on 1 game but in 5v5 Bf feels much stronger. In 3v3 I play pretty much only jungle for a long time lol but still not hard to beat any of them. Krul is an exception, for Krul I need a good counter pick roam.
So what I meant is Bf even though I hate the way he changed isn’t that different when facing melee warriors. The biggest difference and disadvantage now is that on point doesn’t slow and that matters against Krul. For other match-ups he’s not that hardly affected. The execute kinda helps but he didn’t rely mainly on it when facing warriors and it actually still hits hard. The best tip I can give is just don’t fear other warriors, Bf even has the same if not more HP as them. Just practice and you’ll get the hang of it.

IMO the changes to BF have been attempting to push BF into the assassin side unsuccessfully while reducing the complexity in his kit.

Realistically an assassin should do damage, so what they’re doing it taking away his utility so they have room to buff damage. Problem is, BFs main damage source, his A, is now totally binary and boring. Plus it’s incredibly OP with BP, since the execute is WP.

I know he’s gotten tons of mini reworks recently and many BF mains don’t want to see him changed anymore, but I personally think he should get his true damage execute back. Not because I want him executing for half your HP, but because true damage can’t provide BP stacks. I’d leave more ideas but I’m lazy so yeah.

I think Lyra has more features in her kit.

I got interested after the conversation we had as I remember there have been many changes recently to a lot of stuff. So we went ahead and tried Bf against Rona and Alpha mainly with various builds. Wp Bf beats both with WP Alpha being the closest fight. Rona was able to kill Bf using the split push build (SM, BP, TT, TM) but even then bf can kill her if he times block correctly and also she had MJ instead of Aegis which won’t actually be very good in a real game. CP Bf completely destroys them both. I didn’t even need to use my ult most of the time. Another interesting thing is we tried Joule too and with full build Bf 1v1s even her but in a real game she probably won’t let you get there so don’t take it for granted. We’re probably going to test Tony later and maybe Baptiste so if you’re interested I can tell what happened. And if anyone wants to try something else and is EU I’m down.

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If you do test with Tony and Baptiste please let me know how it works out! Also, what’s your build? SM BP SB?

After reading what you said I tried out BF a couple of times and you’re right lol he’s a monster in bot. I wrote what I wrote after going top against enemy Rona bot who absolutely destroyed me because of red buff. BF with red buff though is an absolute monster. I pulled off several 2v1s and 3v1s with it, sure they were remarkably low tier (thanks matchmaker) but still it was really fun. Thank you because if not for your posts I wouldn’t have tried him out!

You’re welcome. We couldn’t test Tony and Baptiste yesterday but I’ll try today. And the build is SM BP BS.

It’s funny yall think Malene got a high skill cap. Just keep switching forms and kiting that’s all that’s to it.

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You are talking too much about “if you know how to outplay, how to get ahead, etc”. This is a wrong argument to compare heroes. l3on will rape us both 1vs1 with every hero in the pool, but that doesn’t mean that hero is stronger into X. You should bring two players into even field of skill.

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"Dificulty: Hard"
LMFAO…

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Yes. If Rona and Bf both understand their heroes and know how to play Bf will win. Same for Alpha, Ozo, Glaive etc. Yes you do need to know how to play Bf but at the same level Bf will win. Take it like this if bad Bf faces bad say Rona, Rona wins. If good Bf faces good Rona, Bf wins.

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I should probably change the title to ‘Why the changes to Blackfeather’ cos you guys start comparing based on skill instead of the hero. What I meant from the beginning is, why take away his immunity to slows and ability to slow? Those were features that used to indicate the level of skill a player has. Now he’s no different from any other bruiser.

No? My first post completely agreed. I feel the same way and I think it doesn’t feel like the same hero. If you go back and read I just said he went from he stickiest hero to a hero that gets kited by snipers. He’s always been able to 1v1 most warriors (of course if he isn’t off meta at the moment) and that isn’t changed because he doesn’t need to chase them. Except for krul where his slow really made a difference.

I kinda forgot to tell you results. I’m actually unsure if we tested Tony but I’m almost absolutely sure he stands no chance 1v1. What surprised me though was WP Baptiste. Full build CP Bf still no way to lose. BUT Wp Baptiste vs Wp Bf is so close that if Bf misses a single B he loses. I really didn’t expect that. What surprised me even more, and why I actually remembered to tell you, is his early game. I was in draft and they pickled Bf and Vox into our Celeste and Walker. As I really didn’t think any WP jungler would counter CP Bf I decided to just go Wp Baptiste and try him. He also has lots of CC so I could at least peel if I’m useless otherwise. His early game is so damn strong. It’s true I had Walker who’s also CC monster but even by myself I completely destroyed that Bf even tho he was landing B and not really playing bad.

I know I lost the game but to be honest it wasn’t my fault. This Celeste wasn’t landing anything and also died right before Kraken spawn and threw. We lost 4 turrets in 1 attack as I can’t really defend that. But still I found him to be pretty good counter.

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