Why the meta will never be healthy


#1

So assuming semc figures out a way to fix the current issues with meta, so they find a way to make laners actually have to farm their lane and go trough a lanning phase instead of spending most of their time sharing jungle ambient. And they figure out a fix that allows junglers to be anywhere on the map instead of hovering bot lane, the meta will still be extremely unbalanced. Reason ? The map mirroring , it means that a bot laner typically a weapon carry has to play a lannig phase against a top laner typically tank that builds utility. Regardless of how they balance the heroes and items the meta will be unbalanced and here is why:

The heroes that are played in top such as Cath, Ardan, Grump etc… they’re all heroes that are extremely tanky that have a lot of utility and with high base damage. In a scenario where nothing is touched so with the current heroes and items balancing), there is no way a bot laner wins a straight 1v1 against a top laner the only heroes that would be capable of doing so are probably kensei and kenetic but that would be after they completed mask bp and a block.

On the other hand in a scenario where top laners are nerfed or their core items such as pulsweave gets nerfed then it would be the bot laners that would have an absolute field day and bully top laners due their range and mobility advantage.

Either way i don’t think a sweet spot can be found where a fair lanning phase can be played because at the end of the day its two very different categories of heroes going heads up. Another issue that a lanning phase in the sidelanes will generate is the mind games that will happen during draft, you think x hero for the enemies is going bot so you pick y who counters x and go top but then the enemy pick z who happens to counter y and z is the one who will actually go bot for the enemy. Drafting becomes a chess game where both sides try to bait picks in the sidelanes and basically pick a counter for the counter for counter for the counter of the counter… it never ends.

If semc wants to create a meta with a lanning phase in the sidelane then they would have to remove the mirroring which i believe is not possible due to how the game’s engine works (could be wrong tho don’t quote me on that). But if it is true then the 5v5 meta is forever doomed in my opinion.


#2

Well the map mirroring exists in LoL too and they still have a bot v bot and top v top. The thing that encourages this are the objectives that spawn frequently and give perm buffs. I’m pretty sure having duo support and bot v the top laner was a good strategy when the dragons were different (I forgot what they did before the change).

Tbh people are playing the wrong way. You slap a stormguard banner on your captain or tank and they start shredding people. Atm instead of junglers rotating down to bot they should push an advantage in mid and rotate to top and invade. Due to the top laner having a lot of health and high base damage he’s going to easily pick off some creeps and maybe even some kills. That being one of the reasons why Grump has the highest WR right now because he doesn’t really even need his jungler to come and help him as he can easily 2v1 the popular bot laners besides BF and Kensei and any jungler besides Tony. When you begin to think about who is able to defend against these invasions, heroes such as Tony, Catherine, and Adagio come to mind… and they are top laners as well.

All we can give right now is time for players to realize this and we will eventually have bot v bot and top v top the same way League has. Although there are some problematic heroes such as Silvernail who can stop invades and some heroes that will completely disappear from lane like Reza or Anka, unless we really become like League and they become mid laners…

EDIT: We also need some form of gold rework so the gold in blue and red jungle are even which would encourage what I’m talking about even more since if we did have a bot and support v bot and support the jungler would come down instead of staying at top the entire game.


#3

This directly ties into your first issue

A good jungler will be everywhere.

I main jungle and i’m pretty much like a second Captain because If i’m not everywhere, the lane suffers.
Sure there are awkward rotation issues and yes, the laners do need to pop into the jungle inbetween minion waves, but it’s the jungler’s job and the captain to cover the lane while you’re gone (not more than 30 seconds).

The thing about jungling is, one will always be better than the other. If you’re continuously ganking the enemy, you’ll win. if you’re the one getting ganked, you lose. It’s a battle of mechanical skill and Map presence. Objective steals. Vision.

Vision is continuously changing. I’m forever finding better vision spots. A good jungler will spot patterns in the enemy vision placement and the pattern in their rotations. A good jungler will also know when to reveal themselves in lane and when not to.

Because of all these factors that make up a good jungler, it is always possible to be beaten by some other jungler that is simply a better jungler than you.

Anyway, back on topic. I propose a fix that hasn’t been thought of before:

Reduce the size of certain strategic brushes, to let vision see through them, but not too much, just make them have a tiny opening to catch a glimpse of the enemy. This would make jungle takes much more risky and laner’s being squishy would be vulnerable when they go jungle.

Of course this would increase the skill cap of the jungler even more and make the jungler role even more of a challenge, so that would be a consideration when they decide on how much to reduce the brush by.


#4

Honestly League jungle rotations are more fluid


#5

their jungle is much more dynamic. One jungle creep spawns more underlings the more you attack. they got river creeps and buffs and team exp with the dragons.

VG, in order to keep it available to many VG fans who run low end devices, kept the map simple.

Even though VG borrows many aspects from LoL, it really is an unfair comparison.


#6

Thats all true, leagues jungle has more fluid and dynamic ways to jungle