Why duo and trio q should be removed from 5v5 ranked


#1

So vainglory currently has 4 queues for ranked so solo, duo, trio and 5 man q. Another moba like league on the other hand only has 2, solo/duo classified as solo q and 5 man teams classified as dynamic q. So what having more queues means is that there is more possible combinations for the match making to create meaning more room for error. Lets take a look at the possible combinations with league’s system and then compare it to vainglory’s:

League’s possible combination: 5 solos vs 5 solos; 1 duo + 3 solos vs 5 solos; 1 duo + 3 solos vs 1 duo + 3 solos; 5 man party vs 5 man party; So a total of 4 combinations, 3 of them are perfectly fair and one is kinda unfair but still not game ruining kind of unfair.

Vainglory’s possible combinations: 5 solos vs 5 solos; 1 duo + 3 solos vs 5 solos; 1 duo + 3 solos vs 1 duo + 3 solos; 2 duos + 1 solo vs 5 solos; 2 duos + 1 solo vs 1 duo + 3 solos; 2 duos + 1 solo vs 2 duos + 1 solo; 1 trio + 2 solos vs 5 solos; 1 trio + 2 solos vs 1 duo + 3 solos; 1 trio + 2 solos vs 2 duos + 1 solo; 1 trio + 2 solos vs 1 trio + 2 solos; 1 trio + 1 duo vs 5 solos; 1 trio + 1 duo vs 1 duo + 3 solos; 1 trio + 1 duo vs 2 duos + 1 solo; 1 trio + 1 duo vs 1 trio + 1 duo; 1 trio + 1 duo vs 5 man party; 5 man party vs 5 man party; So a total of 16 combinations, there is 3 to 4 combination that are game ruining, 7 to 8 combinations that are kind of unfair but not game ruining kind of unfair and about 4 combinations that are perfectly fair.

If you campare both systems, league’s match maker has a 75% chance of creating a fair game and a 25% chance of creating a slightly unfair game. On the other hand vainglory’s match maker has a 25% chance of creating a fair game, around a 50% chance of creating a slightly unfair game and around a 25% of creating a totally unfair game.

Conclusion ? Get rid of trio q, make solo and duo one queue but make so that each team can only get 1 duo so that the 2 duos + 1 solo vs 5 solos combination doesn’t happen. Watch the match maker’s succes rate triple and the rate of having completely unfair cancerous games go down to zero.

Reality ? The chances of this happening are basically none existent because of semc’s policy of screw anyone who’s passionate about the game as long as the new players are happy. Getting rid of trio q means that you have to ditch one of your friends and the little whinnies on reddit won’t be happy about it.

P.S: I am only discussing queues here, when i say fair game its only for the balancing of solos and parties in a game. Obviously the getting teammates that are 4 full tiers below yours problem will not be solved by this.


#2

No, because why should SMEC allow 5 man ques and not 2-3 man ques.

It isnt a source of unbalanced, its the match makers fault.


#3

Not only that, those who play trio and now cant would leave.


#4

Trio que is horribly unbalanced. i ran into a VG silver trio que this morning… The matchmaker can’t find anything near that and will instead just fill up the enemy team…


#5

I mean it sucks from that perspective but trio q triples the probability of an unbalanced games its literally the best elo boosting technique there is right now. I would say if you really enjoy playing vainglory with friends, just get 2 more people and 5 man


#6

Not everyone can find 4 more players, but 2 its quite easy, thats the problem


#7

then solo/duo ? 30303030303030


#8

Duo? So you are leaving one of your friends alone, Solo? So you play alone when you can play with friends? Honestly, if i couldnt play with friends i would leave.


#9

Well a lot of people left and will leave because they got matched as a solo into parties, i basically gave up on the game after getting matched as a solo into a trios for 3 games straight. Can’t please everyone, trio q is the reason behind all the match making problems regarding parties, creating a much more healthy match making is a bigger priority then the ability to play with 2 friends. If the goal was really to please everyone then quad q in ranked games would be a thing, just like you have 2 friends to play with some have 3 and they adapted just fine. Semc didn’t allow for quad q for a reason they knew it would create absolute chaos but little the knew trio q isn’t any better it broke the balance of match making anw. As i said can’t everyone but getting rid of trio q would the best decision they’ve made in 7 months.


#10

Without knowing how big of a part of the community you are risking? You can always change how the MM works by not making possible the scenario of full Solo q against a trío.


#11

But that would be way harder to implement as i said more queues means more possible combinations and you have to code accordingly for each combinations which means triple or quadruple code size and increase dramaticaly the numbers and risk of bugs or coding erros. That’s what probably happened anw i am pretty sure it was never intended to make it possible to solo q into parties but a coding error means that its a thing now and the whole reason behind that error is trio q. I am pretty sure that the number of players that would actually leave if trio q was to get rid of is minuscle, no one left cause they can’t quad q even though they would love to.


#12

I honestly don’t see any reason to divide ques by how many players are premade. I feel like the matchmaker should just match players with the closest VST as possible. If you’re gonna complain about premades beating your all soloque team then that’s your problem this is a team game, that is how team games work. People who play in teams should have the advantage for taking the extra steps to win, that’s how games are. Those who go the extra to succeed will succeed. You don’t see in professional sports that the players with the best numbers are just randomly put on teams and told to duke it out. No people choose the team they’re in (or someone does it for them) and they learn to work together. This is a team game so get rid of separate ques all together.


#13

Because only 5 man vs 5 man should be allowed. Full premade versus full premade…


#14

I disagree strongly. If the match maker cant balance out a duo, trio or full party with a other team full with solo quers on the opposing side, it shouldn’t allow partys in general.

Look at LoLs matchmaker, not the best but way better than Vgs.

And guess what.

It only allows duo partys which puts a less of a strain on the match maker algorithm

Edit: Vg should focus on its matchmaker than pumping out heros every patch. Its kinda sad to see a game struggling with it needing a balance dev to help work on improving the MM


#15

No offense but that’s the biggest pile of crap i’ve heard someone say in quite a while. You’re literally contradicting yourself, its because its a team game queues should be seperated obviously the premade team is gonna steam role the team of solos. You’re playing with a bunch of randoms that you have no synergy what so ever with and you’re limited to pings to communicate with them which can’t communicate shit while the enemy are in discord shotcalling and probably have hundreds of games to build synergy together there is literally no way the team of solos beats the premade unless they’re just terrible players. Going by your logic might as well get rid of match making and just implement chaos queue for ranked, your problem for playing as a team with your tier 4 teammates against a full team of tier 10 right ? Wake up mate.


#16

I never contradicted myself. Yes premades are gonna rekt soloquers I said that clearly. But at a point eventually all the good premade teams would be the majority of high tier players as it should be. We would see a completely more balanced matchmaking for high tiers and low tiers. Then you would have the high tier players instead of blaming the L all the time on their teammates because they soloqued their ego is full from the Visual rank(which doesn’t help that it’s generally higher) they will begin to ask each other in the premade team what we did wrong and how we can improve. You would have players trying to improve themselves and work better as ANY COMPETITIVE COOP GAME is. That’s how it is at the very end and how it should be. And you’ll have all the soloes at the overall lower tiers playing with other soloes.

Then you’ll have players saying to themselves “well if I want to rank up I’m gonna need a team” so players are gonna feel more inclined to group up. So the game is only gonna have more premades which is healthy for the game. People are more likely to have fun playing a game with their friends in which they all enjoy and can improve at , then a game they can’t win because "teammates bad " soloque mentality. And I’m not even saying that soloque mentality is bad because often times it is because solo que teams don’t work together and right now with the game’s no chat options it only makes it worst.


#17

All that would do is make elo extremely inflated, players will reach higher tiers than they deserve cause they get all those free wins from beating solo queues but obviously once they reach those ranks they’re gonna fall off cause they lack to skill and vis versa a player that is actually decent and skilled might be knocked to a lower than he deserves. Not every premade is gonna reach the top tiers that’s not how it works you don’t just team up as 5 and win every game until you reach the highest tier in the game. Overall what that would do is lead to absolute chaos, bad players in high tiers, good players in low tiers, a mix of everything in the mid tiers, bad premades in mid tiers that can’t progress but will still ruin solo q after solo q game… you name it. Not to mention that it would not only kill solo queue but the game itself, people don’t just solo q cause they have no friends to play with some do it just for the experience or to improve individually as a player and obviously those player will quit if most of their games are gonna be lost before they even started. In theory ranked should be a representation of skill not based on pure luck because thats what such a system would do, vg gold will be filled with the best premades while basically all the other ranks will be a clusterfuck of premades and solos good bad players… Once again no offense its nothing personal but that’s by far the worst idea someone has ever come up with for a team based online game match making, thats not a thing in a single moba and will never be a thing.


#18

How is ranked different from chaos que?


#19

Chaos queue is shorter queue times at the expense of terrible match making while ranked queue is long queue times with terrible match making.


#20

They should in all honesty just change the pairing requirements for trio queue. Trio queue players tend to be coordinated and could play penta q but they won’t because they don’t want to wait the entire time. For trio queue the enemy team should have either a trio queue or two duo queues. I don’t see why 60% of one team is coordinate while the other has 40%.

Also trio’s can have a mid jungler and captain which is instant gg if all of them are good.