I never liked casual cause of the insta lockers and overall poorer quality of players. I am on a 6 losing streak from bad team mates rn ;-; Despite me playing well in some of those games. My latest Ringo match is a prime example…
I’m interested in how draft mode would work in 5v5. Assuming they ban 2 heroes per team, that’s already 14 heroes out of the 37 we have used up in just the draft phase, 16 used up if its triple ban.
Add a few post match screens?
Teammates can kill you believe me I know.
I just want 5v5 to come for all players. 3v3 has been tossed in the trash bin and once 5v5 hits I will never touch 3v3 again especially now that it is being actively neglected.
Active neglection seems paradoxical however SEMC managed to pull it of…
3v3 is really suffering right now, I agree. I don’t agree that there’s anything active about SEMC’s inattention to that mode, however – they truly are a very small team, and resources have been virtually entirely devoted to 5v5 for the better part of a year.
That said, it does suck, because 3v3 is a unique and very enjoyable mode.
It’s not ranked that matters is everyone having access to it. You can pretty much bomb the draft in a ranked match too if you want, you don’t need casual instalocking ability to torch a match before it even starts.
And most people can’t draft to save their lives. Nobody picks a roll they just hope to get their hero and who cares about the team they just got their hero…
3v3 was an enjoyable mode…
It could be again but right now between draft and 3v3 inbalances you can get very very crappy matches…
Yup this exactly. First guy instalocks saw. Indicates lane… Second guy can’t do anything other than play an instalock hero so locks in ringo and indicates jungle.
They expect you to captain for them.
Or worse then that the third guy in a normal draft does not communicate at all and jungle and carry get picked before he locks in the worst possible hero vs the other team.
Those are my matches in 3v3 ranked atm…
It’s pretty much the same in 3v3 casual, I assure you.
I can definitely wait.
We need the newer people to get a good grasp of the game and become familiar with rotations before jumping into ranked, including myself.
Currently I see some posts about unfair matchmaking and people being salty when they lose because of teammates, but not many posts since you don’t really “lose” anything when you lose, and you can just treat it like practice.
BUT, if this starts happening and people are losing elo, that’ll just make them more salty and toxic.
Right now VG 5v5 is a new experience for everyone, we just need to give those players some time to adjust, as well as improve ourselves in that period.
This is going to get worse over time as SEMC has made it clear they will balance the heroes around 5v5. That’s going to effectively turn 3v3 into a. Non-official brawl mode.
Come this time next year, 3v3 won’t be anything but a brawl mode and only because they put in so much work on the map and content that they’ll keep it around. It makes sense given they expressed interest in designing specific maps for BR and Blitz. 3v3 will just accompany them.
But everything about this game is set to be 5v5. Even in BR, some heroes have a massive advantage given that nature of the content. Phinn for example has a massive leg up, as does Samuel and Skaarf. Most mages and skill shot heroes do quite well and melee tends to struggle given the terrain.
The future is 5v5.
The issue is 5v5 magnifies faults. If you are bad at rotations on 3v3, 5v5 will eat you alive. Bigger map, more terrain to cover. It’s a bit counterintuitive but 5v5 is way more punishing. Get caught out and suddenly it’s a 1v4 and there is no amount of defense that will see you through that.
Time a bad fountain, half your team is gone, the enemy rushing down the remainder.
Most junglers I see spend their time basically running the map trying to farm and offer little to team wide value; i.e., they do nothing.
It will help when we start seeing tournaments kick off using the new mode as that will establish some kind of meta. Even the pros are just playing around, same boat as us, but at least with tournament play, the rest of the masses will have some kind of structure.
In any case, it’s going to be a lot harder to gain Elo for most, the newness of the mode aside, as 5v5 is actually a lot harder if you have weak links. One godly player could carry back in the day. Since 2.0 that became a thing of the past (you could argue sooner) but one player could still make a huge dent. In 5v5, one player means nothing in th grand scheme of things.
This entire post is exactly on point, imo.
I agree on the magnification part yet you also state that an individual player means nothing which is quite the paradox.
In other mobile mobas I am quite adapt at what is called splitpushing here. Didn’t know the term but hey…
When your team fights a 4vs5 on a favourable location a single hero can do a strong lane push.
On a guarded lane in 3v3 an individual player can’t do jackshit. With 3 lanes and only five players the chances to push and punish bad laning have mulitplied intensely.
It is easier to pick a hero that can fit a role the team needs when there are 3 lanes and a double jungle…
I admit it’s a bit counter intuitive. 5v5 magnifies fault because of how the numbers work.
In a 3v3, because there are less players, that also means less damage output, or less incoming damage vs total effective health of each player. Meaning two allies at 20% HP, by way of proper kiting and hand offs, could take down an enemy at full HP. For every hit (not counting AoE) loosed, you could land 2. When one moves, the other can reposition, making it hard to perform a 1 to 1 trade off (blow for blow) like you can in a 1v1. This assumes all things considered equal (no skill disparity, etc.).
In a 5v5, you add two more carries, so a exponential increase in incoming damage, but no increase in effective health. That translates to less opportunity defending when caught out because of the numbers. That’s also the reason one ally doesn’t matter. Because when you’re jumped by 3-4 players, even if all of them miss half of their abilities, you’re dead anyway. Remember that if you die and the enemy walk away with 1 HP, you still died. Naturally it’s better than them leaving with full HP to go off and take more objectives, dying, especially with heavy death timers, is still a catastrophic loss to your side.
So the more players, the more the team matters and less the individuals in it. Naturally in a straight up team fight things change, but for most of the match that precedes late game, those are rare. Usually it’s ganks or being caught out that prevent you from gaining ground. Hence the immense need to work together!
I can see how it seems like a bit of a paradox but you can feel it when you play. 3v3 has quite a bit of leniency. Usually you can somewhat carry a weak third or at least mask their weakness through being a good carry or a good roam. In 5v5, those are harder if at all possible because numbers dictate whoever has more, will win that engage. (Imagine having a 4th ally show up periodically in 3v3.)
No way, while I agree being caught out by 4 enemy team sucks and will usually end up in the death of you. A single player can make a diffrence. Especially during lane phase as a jungler. Gank and kill the enemy often and build a huge gold gap. Help support the weak laner. Steal jungle from enemy. I’ve hard carried as jungle quite a few times.
I agree tho if all 4 of your team can’t even hold a tower have zero map awarness and just suck so bad they need to play bots. then yes it wont matter if you’re a god jungler they will kill whatever gold lead you tried to establish for your team.
I’m going to miss 3v3, as 4 years of my memory of Vainglory have been spent in the Halcyon Fold. That being said I’m ready to move on to bigger, better things, and a new ranked mode will be a relief. 3v3 is in an absolute state of decay. I didn’t think that 5v5 early access would gut 3v3 as it did, I assumed there would still be some meat left on its bones… Oh boy how wrong I was. I still play some 3v3 here and there to try to raise my elo a bit but I’ve already put the idea of 3v3 going forward to rest. If it’s going to remain the way it is now throughout the life of 5v5, then I can’t imagine many players will be spending their time there.
Would it be crazy to think of the possibility of allowing multiple picks of the same hero in draft 5v5?
Just to be clear about this - the long term intention of SEMC is that both 5v5 and 3v3 will be balanced.
I agree that 5v5 is the future of VG and will for many of us be the primary mode of play, but there is no intention to grandfather or completely neglect 3v3.
However it is a small team and ultimately balancing both modes is probably going to require kit changes - and kit changes take programming time.
What you are seeing right now in 5v5 and 3v3 is trying to balance them as much as possible without kit changes - so just by tweaking the numbers a bit. Its worked to some degree - compared to a few months ago 5v5 is a heck of a lot more balanced than it was, at the cost of somewhat unbalancing 3v3.
Now they will get data from the 2.12 Golden Ticket players which will give them some quantitative analysis on top of the feedback they have had over months from PBE players about which heroes were too strong, too weak etc. That will enable them to tweak the numbers some more while the worst of the kit changes needed will be done. Next patch will generate even more data that will allow for more tweaking and the indentification of kits that need adjusting.
It will get there. It will take time, but I know the plan is to have balance across the modes.
I’m legit ready for 5v5 ranked already, I’ve already marked down MY OWN vision pathing, rotations, gank options, and a whole lot more without looking at guides from say FlashX and the bunch. Reason being developing your own playstyle and cultivating it rather than copying someone elses playstyle and idolizing it just becuase they had a good run in 3v3 esports and etc is an optimal way to look into 5v5. Most stuff from 3v3 is irrelevant in 5v5, and so while I’ve looked at 5v5 guides and such, I can’t help but scoff at them. If you plan on playing 5v5 at a near professional level, it helps to explore and experiment with what’s possible, and having 5v5 MOBA experience (LoL and Dota) really helps you in the long run. Because of said experience, I’ve been able to do near flawlessly in all of my 5v5 games and have actually gotten bored of it due to casual being a pubstomp to me.
Hurry up 3.0, come and let me dominate you.
I hope draft rankesld are implemented including low tier