They are also starting to remove part of lyra’s kit too.
No snare, no slow on her arcanum…
4 Likes
Sure there are more captains meta, but less mages, snipers, assassins… overall the amount of viable heroes is less than what it used to be. The only consistent type of heroes that can be played are roams, which are just OP. The simply fact that roams fill the roles of top, jungle and roam (60% of the roles) with more damage, tankiness and CC than junglers and most carries is a sign that the meta is not balanced. But hey, keep buffing captains, they still not being as relevant as they should 
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I am main captain, and for me this update is just horrible, yes I have more heroes and all, but where’s the point on invading the enemy if I know I will win just because they can’t fight me because I am a tank and they don’t? I also play jungle and lane, and any situation the meta is toxic and unbalanced. Roams are everywhere and there is no point on fighting them: they destroy you no matter your skill; Kinetic and Silvenail sweep the rest of the snipers, warriors doesn’t exist, some heroes are really weak and SEMC just tweak them a little bit (Reim, Kestrel…) if not nerf them (Taka) while buffing the meta heroes (Yates, Lorelai). 3 out of 4 bans goes to captains plus they being priorized and instead of nerfing them SEMC buff them because they weren’t as impactful as they should. SEMC wants captains (who doesn’t build any damage item) to be able to 1v1 carries and junglers, so when you pick a warrior for their strong early game you just get recked by a captains that has no damage items, this is not fair. Captains should have good damage but not as if they build damage items. If you decide to build damage in captains then ok, but just because you are a captain you should not have that amount of damage. Why lorelai should have that damage and not a roam Ringo? Why they have more damage than warriors, who are supposed to be strong early game and don’t have as much CC as Captains? The meta is not balanced, and Zekend and Sonata are doing a poor job balancing it: each update is worse than the last one.
Her passive still slows…
3030303030
1 Like
He seems more viable than many other melee heroes. I also think his CP path is undervalued.
Inara is all-around pretty balanced though. Blackfeather brought high burst damage, invulnerability, barrier, and helped his team pursue. Inara works because she relies on her A for most of her damage, so she has 4 second gaps in her damage output, and she has no defenses so most heroes can turn and put damage her when she’s chasing. Inara is very little threat in 1v1, so having controls and a teamwide buff is fine for her.
Blackfeather is a huge threat in 1v1 fights (even in his nerfed version) he doesn’t need to hit and run in 1v1 (he can chain hits and rely on his barrier and invulnerability), and he does a huge amount of damage in a short time. If he were rebalanced to be less self-sufficient, then it might make sense to add Rose Trail back.
Inara does t have defenses, and she can’t chain attacks, so she basically has to run in every fight. She might just hop out of melee range for 3 seconds while she waits to get her A back, or she might totally disengage, but she’s got nothing without mobility. It’s not bad because she brings a lot of utility for her team, but she’s not a duelist. BF would need to lose a lot of dueling ability to justify giving him more team utility, but that might be stepping too far from the core of he character.
Blackfeather had nothing that couldn’t be nerfed instead of deleted.
4 Likes
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I do think 3v3 was balanced. It’s most balanced period in my opinion was 2.8. 3v3’s balance only went seriously south shortly after 5v5 debuted. Big surprise there.
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5v5 isn’t balanced. Top is still the same horror show it has always been, captain heroes do ludicrous amounts of damage which has caused them to effectively render an entire hero archetype (bruisers) obsolete (when was the last time you saw heroes like Rona, Krul, WP Joule, Tony, or Alpha played on a relatively consistent basis in high elo?), and there are several heroes who blatantly do not work in the 5v5 format, Reim and Petal being the two most obvious examples that come to mind. The assassin class is effectively dead save for two stragglers (those being Anka and Reza)—one of which is more or less permanently banned—and bot lane is more or less dominated by either Kinetic or Silvernail.
I don’t know how this mode is balanced to you. To me, it seems like it’s all the same nonsense since it first came out. The only difference is that Fortress and Koshka no longer dominate it and the triple tank meta has been replaced by the duel tank meta.
EDIT: I don’t know how anyone in their right mind can actually argue that the state of captains is good in this game right now. Lorelai is patently busted and Flicker’s damage is just ignorant up to, and even somewhat beyond, mid-game.
8 Likes
Alright here’s my take on it:
Top lane: Basically a sht show for any melee hero I’ve actually diverted into playing more ranged characters just so I can aggro minions from turret and CS properly. I love my melees but like the only one I can get working is Inara and that’s because even if she falls behind she has something to do. I need a lot more practice on mages and this is helping I guess. The fact that Magnus is pretty fun to play also helps. Have had a very salty loss with CP SAW though…
Mid lane: Pretty fun and probably the only thing that will remain consistent in 5v5s longevity until captains move to bot lane or top. Because then people will play Anka like Zed.
Jungler: Possibly more diverse hero pool that basically opens it up for anyone to play to the point where the jungle roster gets overshadowed by things like Celeste, Skaarf or Yates. It is still suffering from the problems it’s always been.
Bot lane: I don’t know. Kinetic is the strongest she has ever been with her only weakness being the fact that she burns all her energy early game so I feel like that is something key that SEMC should focus on when nerfing her, instead of nerfing the damage. Because it kinda just goes hand in hand. Fewer stacks, less damage. Silvernail is dominant in pro play but does he really need a nerf when people use an inferior build like SM BP BS? Certain people are good at him others are just bad.
Captains: Well they basically outclass everyone.
Anka is still OP though lol. I feel like they should just remove her damage when she blinks in and make it so her knives are actual knives and don’t go through a hero that has been hit point-blank…
Just the first missle and the outer wall of bulwark
There was a inner wall?
This text will be blurred
… girl I …
I meant that it stops enemies from movement based abilties on the edge of the bulwark. But if they are inside the bulwark they can use movement based abilities.
4 Likes
The first missile never slowed, and the BB still slows…
@Guest_78 @VaKTaBi @cha0z @Bobmax
I see your points on Captains being too prevalent this year. As a Captain player, I’m happy they are relevant, but at the same time, they have to get nerfed to make room for other heroes to shine.
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I don’t mind Captain heroes being able to build either crystal or weapon aside from just supportive builds.
I think this made them easy to be abused. A pure Captain build I think should have lots of health and defenses but less damage than a bruiser building one or two defenses and offense items.
Personally, I feel like Captains need an overhaul of their numbers so that they don’t heavily out damage carries once they get to a full build.
Anka, I think needs some time to be balanced. She could disappear in just a patch if they feel like it.
Blackfeather, Kestrel, Petal, and Reim I think are just outdated and outclassed by newer heroes.
They still have their uses, but I feel that they could use a few touch ups.
Anything that makes them able to compete with the mobility and tankiness that newer heroes have.
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@Bobmax For me, Reim is ok stats wise. It’s just that the current era of mobility and free access to bleed items causes him to suffer in matches. Another problem I feel he has is the dependency on having to deal most of his damage through the second proc of his A and in combination with his Heroic Perk.
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@RiseChu I guess I doomed the thread when I mentioned Blackfeather eh? I didn’t know that forumers were extremely into having him restored to his former glory.
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@coltonJW To me, the balance of 3v3 is finicky cause the main focus of balance is now 5v5. It can be balanced, but I feel like the first step towards making 3v3 feel balanced is to give players more ban options during Draft and roll out the Draft system to all Tiers of Ranked 3v3 play.
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@VaKTaBi I think it’s normal for heroes to over time become less and less used (unless they are designed in such a way that they remain relatively relevant such as Ardan and Vox). It’s what I see League of Legends is like over the past few years. Lots of memorable Champions but a good portion barely see any use.
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Interesting view on the roles and positions of 5v5.
I think side lanes and jungle would never be stable unless they extensively modify the map and introduce jungling items. Kind of like making the 5v5 map like League’s map. Sure, it’ll throw things out of wack again, but at least it enables them to balance things in ways that they can refer to and also because they know better as a good portion of them are past League players (I think most still play League).
I agree mid lane is the most stable, with most if not all mid laners being viable and interchangeable depending on the skill of the player and the requirements of the team composition. I especially love playing mid lane in 5v5 as Skaarf. I feel impactful at least and can hold my ground most of the time.
Good points on Kinetic and Silvernail I say.
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Hmm… I wonder if people will be interested in a post comparing all Captain stats and damage potential.
The first missle slows. The 2nd doesn’t.
Heavy attack is 0%
30 characters
The first missile doesn’t slow, it’s the second one.
With a health scaling, so it still slows, which is my point. They haven’t deleted that. They only thing they’ve deleted was the snare.
Well… 0.04… lots of difference???
Doubt so
For captain Lyra she slows as much as in the past, so the difference can be 35-50% slow, which is quite huge.
2 Likes
As a captain player I want captains to be relevant, but when this is active by giving them so much damage and overshadowing heavily a whole type of heroes, then it’s a bad way to make them impactful, which is my point.
4 Likes