What do "You" Think of the Current State of Heroes?

I agree with you but to be honest I like all of the new heroes. They’re really cool, fun to play and well designed. I think old heroes should be like them by reworks not the other way around. We’ve talked about that before though so I think you share this opinion.

Yeah same. Since he got his kit removed people started complaining and acting as if he was some broken hero for the 2 years he had those things. I don’t know why either.

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Yes, sorry if I was not clear enough, I also like the new heroes and higher skill cap/more in the kit. I also think that it would be great to make more complex the old heroes, but that’s just me. :slight_smile:

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I don’t think a ranged slow was his identity. I think the Rose Trail was more core to his identity even though it is clearly the weaker ability. The slow also doesn’t fit into the general rule of what melee heroes do.

It’s been 9 months and he is still C tier in 5v5. I think players fell in love with him and are upset he has been out of meta for that long. He was arguably meta (S/A tier) from at least 2.4 to 2.11. He consistently made at least #3 on Excoundrel’s hero tier list put out during that time. That’s 7 months of meta.

I believe the Feint buff is designed to move him into the “blow people up” assassin role. The problem is getting 5 stacks in the middle of a 5v5 fight and then moving to the next target like Anka does. I think the solution is to have On Point add 2 stacks. This way he could On Point, Ult, AA, AA, Feint. With enough CD he could On Point twice, Ult/AA, Feint. This speeds up his max damage potential while not having a slow that limits counter play.

No, pursuit was his identity. He was stickiest hero now he’s not even close or able to stick to targets sometimes. He did have very long range slow but it didn’t do much damage as WP. As CP it had really good damage but also his DPS wasn’t nearly as high. So in close range he would get outdamaged by ADCs and some warriors. My point is his matchups were based on skills and positioning. Also if slows aren’t for melees who is supposed to have them? What should general rule mean? Krul, Rona, Reim, Joule, Ardan, GJ. How is slow not fitting on melees?

First of all Excoundrel list isn’t based on top tier gameplay. Secondly BF isn’t in every patch from the ones you showed. Thirdly being viable or meta doesn’t mean he’s broken lol? If we base nerfs on Excoundrel’s lists then Vox should be SAW tier by now. All that aside you’re aware that he had been in the game for almost 2 years at that point right?

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You say this about every meta patch though.

Literally.

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I can agree with you saying captains feel a little broken - i went like 10/2/12 on a full utility Lyra and was able to win 1v1s with full build carries. And that’s with a subpar captain. Now maybe that speaks to my skill level or lack of one from the enemy team but still I’m enjoying the new captain meta a bit too much.

This is especially true with Lance, who I think deserves a nerf especially in the hands of a skilled Lance player ( of which I’m not ).

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Too bad that Fortress is the only captain that join in on the fun

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Agree. That’s why I said Rose Trail was more core identity than a ranged slow. Rose Trail is a pure pursuit ability.

I wrote about this earlier in the thread. Generally, CC on melee requires engagement unless it’s an Ult. Slows are perfectly fine on melee. BF did not follow this general trend.

First, offer a better resource if you don’t believe Ex’s list is top tier. You are just dismissing it because you don’t have anything to back up your claims. Second, BF was released in 1.11. so he definitely was around in 2.4 to 2.11. Third, he was broken which is why the devs pulled the slow out of his kit.

I think you are now arguing to argue.

He only was broken when they first buffed his cooldowns after his released; the second time was with CP BF (only 2 patches); third one with the health changes (wich they reverted lately) and the last time was only in 5v5. Over all VF has been broken for 4 or 5 updates, not as many as you said. Personally, what made him trash was the lack of slowness in his B, at least for me, not only for the chase potential but for the lack of outplay potential he used to have. He was designed as a counter of everything and master of none, wich means that a really good BF should be able to defeat in 1v1 almost every single hero, with more or less difficulties, but now BF seems that his kit is u como mete and doesn’t work properly. And about Exclundrel tier list, some of his lists are not really accurate for some of us.

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Arguments about Blackfeather aside, what do people think of Captains as a whole and for specific heroes?

Aside from being able to 1v1 most one defence carries that is.

They are Broken. When a class takes 7 of the 8 first picks (including the bans) in all high elo matches and are prioritised always, It means they are a little bit too strong.

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The have too much damage, they shouldn’t be able to 1v1 any damage dealer, is like expecting a Roam Ringo to kill people. I find them really oppressive due to the amount of damage they can deal in early along with the tankiness and CC they have. They overshadow really hard most bruisers, and an early invasion from roams is almost impossible to defend. Yates was banned and picked 100% of the matches the last update, and they buffed his damage and reduced his cooldowns, personally I think Sonata and Zekend did a poor balance in 3.9

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This, every match I play, all the bans and first picks are captains + the pros do it too in their matches.

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Why do you need to follow general trends? That’s a sure way to not have uniqueness. Why would there be limits? Don’t people love Churnwalker and Skye because they are so different, unique and don’t follow “general rules”.

But I do though…? Pro scene? I didn’t dismiss Excoundrel. I like him. Just saying he’s not top level gameplay + his lists are soloq based and his opinion.

When have I said he wasn’t? That WAS my point. He had been in the game for almost 2 years at the time of 2.4-2.11. So your point is he was meta, not broken but meta in some of those patches? In his 3 years in the game? He’s been broken when he was released, then
“meta” when you said and when he was broken for 2-3 patches when people found out about Aftershock. And you say that’s constant meta? That’s less than half of his total time available on the fold I don’t see your proof honestly.

So I’m not allowed to have an opinion because you say so? Ok got it.

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Kinda split on the roams. On one hand I like that they’re strong because that makes for fun early game. I do think they should be better than carries early. That opens up their potential to harass in lane or fight in jungle.

But on the other hand some of them are way too strong and all of them overshadow warriors. Don’t know how they should work on that to be honest. Warriors just don’t work in VG. Bad general design I guess?

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Comparing malene is kinda unfair since malene has 5 abilities so its obvious that they do something other than just damage.
You can make a list like that for any hero

  1. a targeted gap closer
  2. a gap closer
  3. a gap closer
  4. in-built reflex block
  5. in-built reflex block
  6. execute
  7. reset on kill
  8. infinite energy
  9. barrier
  10. stronger basic attacks (heartthrob stacks)

Exactly, most heroes got a lot in them going on. BF even with his full old kit is not something special in that regard. It’s more of balancing those abilities and how strong their effect + the duration of them would be. From there it’s mostly higher skill cap as more combos are possible to execute. Also he has the identity of the stickiest hero in the game and was designed to be just that… sadly it’s no more.

Exo himself states his lists are soloq based, his opinion only and considering not only the highest tier, but also poa.

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Yeah and they didn’t really remove anything other than the slow.(which I also disagree with)

The “they removed his kit” is more of a meme, rose trail was removed cuz of performance issues and just making the A give a teamwide buff without needing to walk on the trail would be a bit too op.

Let’s remove Skye’s forward barrage. She still has incredible mobility, great reposition, her ult, target lock. It’s gonna be just a meme it’s just 1 thing right? This is why I hate so much when people talk only about “1 thing”. That’s quantity. You’re not talking realistically and what it actually changes. It’s “just 1 thing” but if he can’t stick to his target he can’t do the damage he’s supposed to. He can’t lifesteal. He doesn’t regenerate focus. It’s not “just 1 thing”.

The rose trail excuse is just bullshit. Even if it did drop performance and it doesn’t really can’t they change the damn effect? Reduce the quality? Celeste’s abilities drop FPS a lot on older devices. Why don’t they remove Helios? They’re not gonna remove anything but the Helios. No problem there it’s just 1 thing.

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