We need harsh punishment for dodgers

well, at top tier a 25 elo drop is pretty much a complete skill tier, or pretty close. and definitely if he does it twice.

i think the 25 is enough to deter players, as long as it happens consistently, every time. i know i have prepared meals, thinking i have enough time to pick a hero… and ended up dodging, and yes, i did drop 25 elo. Damn, that hurt, so I never want that to happen again.

Players who make it a habit will end up in LPQ and players who learn from it, will recover that 25 elo fairly easily. At top tier, that 25 elo could take 2 - 3 wins and even 4 - 5 wins at T10 gold level, at low tier, it’s 1 - 2 wins.

it’s a fair system. it just needs to be consistent.

take away AFK forgiveness, because I see that being exploited almost every single game.
I know, taking it away isn’t the best idea because sometimes it actually works and saves you. How could they possibly exploit it you ask? it doesn’t work for parties. WELL, i have no idea… i just know it happens way too often and the only way i can think of is the active player base is small enough that they can solo queue with smurfs, hope to get paired with or against themselves and… dodge or afk…

I haven’t been ranking because of the dreaded ping, So my opinions is based on my ranking experience from last season, but i think it still holds up.

the speed doesn’t have anything to do with the ping. 120Mbps is nothing wow in some regions. In UK it’s super wow, in Bulgaria there is 300Mbps with ipTV (with over 200 channels, including 60 HD) for 20$. :slight_smile:

This is also not correct, depends on the router and the wifi network you have at home (if it’s big enough to need more than a single good router). Had experience both the good routers and the not so ones. You will be surprised how better is on the good ones - range, no packet lost at all, stable good ping, insane speeds - ofc as far as it depends on the router.

@HipsterSkaarf @hazeleyes I don’t understand how someone dodging a bad match up is messing up the matchmaking if anything it’s fixing it. If you let a player who is trolling and trying to lose the match in draft then lose the match for the four on his/hers team yeah one player is being put in their place and losing elo, the troll. But now you have 9 other players who possible didn’t deserve to win that elo or lose that elo. That only contributes to the bad matchmaking. I’m not for dodging but 1 player can lose the match for 4 others more often than 4 others trying to carry someone who isn’t trying against 5 people who are trying

The biggest problem with dodging is that it usually comes from the pompous attitude most people, even new players, have about the meta and understanding heroes. Everyone thinks they know what the best heroes are, what the best strategies are, what comps work or doesn’t work, and this contributes to a lot of the stupidity when it comes to matchmaking. I actually think real trolling is a minority issue when it comes to dodging compared to this.

It is the greater percent when it comes to why people dodge, and the solution is probably a convoluted thing that is difficult to approach. They definitely need to reinstate the elo loss, and punish higher ranked players more. The lpq system is fine as is as it discourages constant lpqers from even trying to get out unless they waste hours doing so. The problem is that there is now little penalty beyond lpq. The other overarching problem is, as usual, the community attitude, and whatever gives it the incentive to exist.

As for people who point out WP Celeste or CP Kensei or whatever isn’t a strategy, maybe that’s because they can fill other roles better, like celeste sacrificing a little dmg to build 1-2 captain items so she can heal from the backline, or Kensei doing the same so he can function as more of a mobile tank & harasser. Yes, these don’t always play directly to hero strengths but they are viable strategies in some situations. There have been many times I’ve gotten rude pings for just building a superscout or contraption on SAW when if you thought about it, he benefits from the constant vision due to his nonexistent move speed, and benefits his whole team as well. Even fountain can be helpful on SAW since he’s probably going to be supported by his team but do it and some people find it stupid. Hell, some people still can’t see CP lorelai as a thing. It doesn’t help to be pedantic about every hero having every path available if you’re not thinking out of the box in the first place.

We’re not really talking about trolling though. I’m talking about players who make bad hero selections.

A bad hero pick should make it less likely that I’ll win. And so, if I consistently make bad hero selections, I should slowly drop rank until I’m at a place where my personal skill balances out with the handicap I give myself by making those bad hero picks. If someone dodges me when I make a bad selection, they’re saving me from losing elo when I probably should have. That’s how it messes with matchmaking. If everyone dodges bad hero picks, the offending players never drop because of their lack of game knowledge. They get to stay where they are until a favorable draft comes along making their pick more acceptable to the other players.

Trolling is a different issue that’s related, but not the same.

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What I’m saying is that the players who does badly in draft still messed up others elo. If a player is constantly picking bad heroes in draft they’re gonna fall in elo wether it be the current match or the next match. You didn’t save them from losing elo when you dodge you merely delayed it. So dodging does not contribute to the bad MM and accepting matches like that if you are really high elo and know that you’re going to lose is actually bad for matchmaking. Because then you’re not gonna lose elo and then get matched with newbs and eventually you’ll have to carry some newbs into a higher match if you want your elo back. But then again I feel like matchmaking is so random that I can’t say dodging will help because overall who you match with, I believe, is too random. My point is that dodging does not contribute to bad matchmaking because players who make bad decisions only learn from failing so wether it’s the first second or third match they get into they’re gonna make bad decisions until they lose and learn.

Celeste is a hypercarry, not a support, wasting her item slots for support items, is trolling.

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My point exactly. So you’re saying you can’t sacrifice one slot for a fountain?

This. Though @Saint7502 has a point in it being a losing battle either way because you usually lose with the bad player or have a grueling struggle of a game trying to carry them and if you win you boost their elo anyway. It is a lose lose but dodging doesn’t help either. Said it before: your rank should not be based on your team play or they should change the system so that individual play is a much bigger factor than winning as a team, or they should make it so teams are a somewhat more permanent thing you join like guilds and team scores are more important than individual rank.

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As Celeste? Yes, you can’t, or you shouldn’t under any circumstances.

No, I get your point. You can’t have a sliding scale though. The “second or third match” will never happen if you allow a mindset that says it’s okay to dodge if the draft doesn’t match your idea of proper. If you take your point to its extreme, and extend that behavior to all players, then no games would ever be played because there’s no universal consensus on how the draft or game should go. If you take my point to its extreme, everyone gets to their true elo eventually, even if they have to suffer through some matches that are impossibly stacked against them.

Maybe I’m asking for people to be unreasonably considerate and patient, but I think it’s a better attitude to have and makes the game more enjoyable.

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So I guess by that logic you shouldn’t even build boots on her then. Because I could think of a very simple strategy where you don’t build boots and just play it very safe while someone else, your capt maybe, makes sure to build a superscout so that your team constantly has vision, but maybe I’m mistaken and a backline mage can’t play it safe from the backline and avoid most cc without boots. And it still kills me every time I see someone build boots on Reza or Anka for that matter. There are these locked in attitudes that if you actually tried them and changed your playstyle a bit instead of dismissing them you might be surprised

You are comparing mobile assassins with a squishy mage that only has 1 stun to protect herself. Boots are a must on most heroes, and given that she has no mobility at all it’s a must on her. Fountain is a no in every scenario, she needs 4 offensive items, 1 slot is for boots, 1 slot is for 1 defensive item, and 4 for the offensive ones. What would you change on her to build FoR?
I’ve seen it a few times, and every time the Celeste did that her team got destroyed.

I’m not comparing them. That was an add on to refute your point that every hero needs boots. Reza and Anka don’t, and neither does Celeste if you play her carefully. Neither does Baron or Joule. Or even Petal. There are many heroes that don’t specifically need boots if you just don’t play hyper-aggressively. And she doesn’t need the mobility given her range. You just have to play her extremely carefully, which I assume the Celestes your speaking on didn’t. And that defensive item you’re speaking on could be a fountain instead of something else very easily anyway, if you built boots on her and again, played carefully.

Almost all ofthe listed heroes will fail at connecting with their enemies without boots.

Boots are needed to connect or stay at equal distance from your enemy when kiting or engaging.

The enemy team can simply gank an opposite location and you will never reach the fight in time without boots…

Forsaking boots is dumb.

Fountain on a hypercarry is pretty bad too. Fountain as second defense item on a bruiser is a possibility.

I myself have experimented with IGC on 5v5 jungler to heal both me and bot laner passively.

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Reza, Anka, Baron and petal are all mobile so if used right they can play without boots, which is also not advisable, but Celeste is NOT mobile, she needs boots, if not anyone that dives her will kill her with ease. Changing Boots for FoR is an horrible decision, FoR won’t save you, Boots is what allows her to kite, doge and defend herself from assassins or divers.

I agree that if you need to move from lane to lane you’re at a disadvantage but coordination with teamates and predictive laning mitigates that.

@Guest_78 I said FoH for her defense item not boots but I think it doesn’t matter which. Hey, it’s an opinion.

Also you can mitigate being dived by timing your cam use correctly or buying contrap/scout instead of a cp energy item and staying close to your turrets. If you see someone like the Takas, Koshkas and Ronas that will turret dive anyway, you stay as far back as possible and stall by killing minions until either a more mobile/tanky hero arrives, in which you play the back line, or you wait them out long enough for your team to gank another lane/try to sneak around from jungle.

Dodging in ranked is the last issue SEMC should be concerned with right now.

Improve the rest of the game.

The ranked community’s usual complaint can wait.

So you would change the Aegis/FoR for a mediocre heal? Its not worth It in any scenario. She would be too squishy and vulnerable.

You think a 40 min que is the least of our problems? Lmao I don’t care for any other problems when I can’t even get in game bro…