Hello. Probably you ain’t know me but I’ve been raised up from the dead from 4 months of inactivity but hell let’s go back to the topic. I think that original 5v5 now with the current global MOBA trend will get us nowhere. I tried coming up an idea with how to change 5v5 to actually make it exciting and all but it just won’t work. That’s why I think a multi-map system will do, like Heroes of the Storm. It’s still 5v5 but each map has a main point of contest for example, capture a location and secure that location to amass a special minion wave that deals significantly more damage and survives significantly longer than your normal minion wave. That’s the only way out IMO for Vainglory in terms of map balance.
For hero balance, I will need to update my old memory of the game because of the 4-month inactivity but will try to utilise what I have already done before.
Ps: that SAW rework was my idea back in the old forums.
I couldn’t disagree more. You either want to play a MOBA or you want to play another custom game. What you’re describing sounds more like capture the flag.
When something is tested, tried and true, you don’t need to mess with it. There is a simple formula for how 5v5 MOBA works in regard to map design. VG has added some cool elements to enhance it such as river flow and the vain crystal fighting back to give their map a unique feel.
It ain’t. I suggest you watch some actual videos of that game. It’s extremely fun to play and its balance is pretty top-notch, by far the best balance I’ve ever seen in a hero-based game.
The thing that VG adds Vain Crystal that can fight back and river move speed buff is completely unoriginal. This is already in League of Legends for the longest time in history that I can remember.
Ps: here’s a video explaining Heroes of the Storm in an extremely short amount of time: https://youtu.be/wPk004vsjuE
Then here’s your second solution: keep the original Sovereign Rise but make a whole load of other maps to support other styles of combat. This way, every hero will have its own place to shine.
Ok I will analyse what Vainglory heroes currently are right now like I did last year or 2 years ago so that we can think this out more clearly:
-Heroes’ min and max HP caps are too similar. In HotS, min HP caps of the hero types are: Celeste-type mages and support (long-range) have around 1500 HP, short-range Vox-type ADCs have around 1900 HP, warriors have around 2100 HP and tanks have around 2500 HP. There’s a whole 1000 min HP difference between tanks and mages while in Vainglory, there are just heroes that start out at around 650 and those at around 750. Only 100 min HP of difference. That doesn’t clear up the roles that much. For me, I’d personally change that to at least 400 HP of difference along with various other changes to make roles more clear, if you like then PM me.
-New heroes’ kits do significantly more things than old ones. This isn’t about numbers this is about the core skill utility. On one hand we have heroes with perks like revealing enemies and on the other hand we have heroes with perks like getting a gurantee crit shot after killing things. That’s not fair and unlike HotS that old heroes’ kits get updated after a few months or maximum a year, Vainglory doesn’t even care about old heroes. Their kits stay the same for their lifetime. I think that we should change once every 6 months.
-Items have the same effect on heroes. This is a very personal opinion because I play HotS and instead of buying items to enhance performance, they choose between talents at certain level caps which makes it more interesting but in Vainglory, I think that each and every hero should make a certain stat of a certain item stand out. For example, Lyra may make FoR heal for more or have a portion of its healing effect incorporated to her healing whenever she acquires it. That will make roles stand out because each role uses certain items and the items used by that role have significantly more effectiveness than other roles.
-The number game is just bad. This one I’ll analyse more deeply if needed, for now I’ll bring up here.
Nah. This reminds me of some guy on the forums a while back (I don’t remember who or when exactly) made a topic basically saying “VG should be more like Dota, I play Dota and I want to play VG but I can’t cause it’s not like Dota” if you want to play Dota, play Dota. If you want to play HotS , play HotS. VG is its own game, it’s a classic moba, let it be a classic moba there’s nothing wrong with that.
I mean, they are unable to make a viable 5v5 map in 1 year or more and failed to deliver a promised Blitz map yet you still think they could do a variety of different maps?
They can’t even fix the shit fest of bugs that 5v5 is.
I hope my posts haven’t come across too much that way. I loved DotA, but I love VG. I love it for it’s classic MOBA traits as you mention. I’ve simply alluded to original DotA (not DotA 2) as a reference for some features that game had that helped to keep it balanced. I like VG’s heroes, lore, graphics, the facts it’s accessible to mobile devices, it’s map, it’s BP, skins, etc. None of that existed on DotA.
Sorry if I’ve come across as salty regarding my suggestions to help balance VG a bit. I was simply using my past experience as context.
I completely agree with your point. Play VG to play VG. It is a true MOBA and I appreciate the game. I believe many of us here are passionate for the game and express our opinions with that passion on the few ways we wish the game was even better. To be like another game is not the solution.
HoTS is also far too casual and that’s by far it’s biggest flaw. There’s no real effort in gaining experience or getting item advantages. Everyone on your team gets the same Exp from everyone on the team. You also have shudder TALENTS that improve your abilities instead of having to build items. We have something similar to this which is Blitz and we already see how chaotic that turns out.
Because HOTS is far too casual leaning compared to other MOBAS you see people talking about HOTS dying or at the very least having it’s development team downsized. Also HOTS alienates a minority (or is it majority) of Fans due to how heroes are changed to fit into HOTS’s more “child friendly” veneer. These could be true or not but it is something to point out.
You can’t have a MOBA be too competitive or too casual. Too Casual and you have HOTS. Too competitive and you have (I really dunno since I’ve only really followed League of Legends and Vainglory).
TBH there is no real good MOBA and every MOBA have their own fair share of critics and supporters. It’s just mostly that people love negativity so it’s easy to poke flaws at something. Even the supposed “better” MOBA’s can be found at fault if people are willing to dig deep enough into the mud.
Obviously one thing most people can agree on is that Vainglory can and SHOULD be improved on. However attempting to simply just emulate another game isn’t quite the way to go.
It wasn’t you I meant it was this: Vainglory dota 2
Comparing the game to other mobas and saying SEMC could take ideas from there is fine, what’s not fine is saying they should change their whole style of game to match that of another.
Typical Lam marking ridiculous suggestions
Vg 5v5 is fine the way it is if you got a problem with it then go back to heros of the storm. It not boring if you have good teammates.
Then you go and make suggestions as the genius you are, give me one right now and I’ll see. I don’t mean we copy paste but we take what’s good and we ditch what is bad. For example we can take the Talent system or the map system combined with DotA’s miss chance etc. to make a somewhat perfect game. That’s how we do it not going willy-nilly adding some weird features that will not work.
You have been warned NUMEROUS times about the tone with which you address other members of this forum. I was wary about giving you another chance when you suddenly reappeared yesterday, but I decided to do so in spite of misgivings. Obviously, nothing has changed since the last time you were here.
My patience with you has now been exhausted.