VG current state, topic "over 9000"

Was browsing samsung game launcher and found something interesting about the players over the last 64 weeks (a year and 4 months). While this is not representative about the whole player base as other platforms are available, samsung got enough phones and market share to to show the relative size in given period or between games.

Vg is half the players it got around 5vs5 launch and at that time it already lost quite a lot of players after destroying 3vs3 starting from patch 2.9.

AOV is 4 times more players globally, this service includes the whole world, including Asia, but it’s declining.

ML, well you can draw your conclusions yourself and why tencent wants to bring LOL to mobile and drop AOV, but it should be noted that in Asia the game goes by another name and it’s global player base is atleast 3 times that number.

It’s on absurd level how much bigger player base ML got, it’s literally so bad that we should not compare that game to the other MOBAs.


And people were saying “release 5v5 so more players will come”. I’m sure it didn’t end as they expected.


People expected 5vs5 realization to the level of 3vs3. With all the necessary love to details, changes, unique mechanics and final touches.

And because someone decided to say when it would be released it got rushed.

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Listen, I’m not going to refute the strong evidence that you, and folks such as @hazeleyes have present in regard to the lower participation in Vainglory.

It doesn’t have as many bells and whistles as AoV and ML. SEMC has made it’s fair share of mistakes. With that said, in my humble opinion, a big reason why a game like ML has grown and VG has dropped is simply because ML is easier. It’s an easier game. From everything I’ve watched (RumblyYT, L3on, XenoTek, Excoundrel and many more) it’s an easier and quicker game. It provides a handicap/skill cap. Yet, it’s still easy for folks I listed to “out mechanic” and just “bully” the competition.

Vainglory takes a lot more mechanical skill and patience to be successful at. It’s a more pure MOBA, and I for one am very glad it exists. I don’t own a gaming desktop/laptop. I can’t play Dota2 or LoL. I believe people who play Dota2 and LoL likely prefer VG’s gameplay, but, why would you not play a polished PC MOBA?

ML is successful because it’s far more of a brawl mobile styled game. Again, this is just my humble opinion, but I don’t think VG and ML can really be compared; they’re different games.

I think SEMC’s ultimate mistake was starting as a 3v3, believe it or not. That, or it was introducing 5v5 in the first place. I feel which ever one they started with, that’s what they should have stuck with. 3v3 made it different from AoV and ML, while staying true to MOBA core components. As @Guest_78 has mentioned many times, the base of VG’s population was 3v3 - obviously, that’s what it started as. To make such an altering change has huge risks. Those risks seem to not have been worth it in regard to the bottom line for the game/company.

Again, personally, I love having the option to play both ranked 3v3 and ranked 5v5 in a MOBA game available on a mobile device that requires skillful gameplay.

On another note, I’ve actually felt an uptick in energy this patch/season - anyone else? I’m seeing names climb the NA Top 100 that I haven’t seen for a while. Chuck has registered a handful of wins (last season I think he has 2). Oldskool has several wins on his main account in NA (also almost nonexistent last season). It’s not all bad, folks. It’s just harder to find the good.


Me too, but my case is because I’m bored of the meta. Its been about 6 updates already with the same meta, so I got bored of playing the same way time and time again. For me it feels like a routine, every match seems the same for me, i no longer question what I do, I just do it mechanically. The lack of progression system doesn’t help either. In general I just feel there is nothing for me to achieve/look for. I know there is still silver and gold but I no longer feel like it’s an achievement, idk.

Also, having my mains destroyed doesn’t make me want to play more, specially after seeing how certain heroes can stay dead for ages and nothing is done (related with the meta).


What if we start an #offmeta movement!? I really want to play WP Idris in Jungle ranked. I just know I’ll get blacklisted if I do. Playing Casual and stomping the competition isn’t fun though - well, it kind of is. :wink:

It’d be fun to watch some high level players do a scrim with all off-meta picks. Flicker captain. Tony jungle. Idris CP mid as a throwback. You know? Just have some fun but playing competitively!


I’d be down for this! We just need to get enough peeps together at the same time

I’ve got lots of thoughts on this but I’m too busy to share them atm (at work rn). Will post something later today.

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Btw, ML released important update: 3 strong support items and even dedicated support position on the map when you choose roles (instead of 2 junglers). They start to make the support role a thing and desirable/important.

Honestly I think there are a bunch of off meta picks that are perfectly playable in 5v5. I recently had a bot lane Glaive literally carry an entire game. My team lost to a CP jungle petal snowball. Some heroes I don’t think should be picked in ranked, but there is a large subset of B tier heroes that with the correct play work really well. If you are stuck playing the same heroes, I feel that’s your fault more than anything considering the game is pretty well balanced right now, except for the few outliers which mostly are banned.

As a top lane, jungle, and captain main, I’ve been playing a lot of Baptiste (top), Tony (top), Lorelei (cap), Inara (not off meta, but a hero that is finally a reliable pick in solo Q. I know she was good last 2 patched, but i was not able to play then) Ardan (cap), Catherine (top), Grace (top). And none of these picks I feel put me at a disadvantage, most I actually saw used in the MPl, I just think people are not looking beyond the obvious picks.

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Baptiste is meta, same with Lorelai, Toni, Grace, Ardan, Catherine… so it’s normal that they didn’t put you in a disadvantage position. I play Kensei and I don’t feel like I am weaker than the enemy.

If all these heroes are meta, then there are 8+ picks for most positions. I guess I fail to see how that is stale if we have one of the more diverse metas the game has seen. I agree certain positions like Captain lack viable options right now, but in bot lane I have seen Kensei, Leo, Caine, Gwen, Glaive (minimally), Kinetic (minimally), and Ringo. I even saw CP joule top
picked in the MPL.

Again I’ve been away from the game for 2 patches, so maybe people are just tired of these heroes, but it just feels like there are so many potential picks to explore. I’ve even heard 3 TM taka is viable, as well as CP Alpha in jungle.

How to say it… about cp petal, winning 1 match doesn’t make the hero good. Petal DOES put you in a heavy disadvantage. Those B tier heroes you talk about, at a certain level, if you use them given that you will fight tier S/A heroes, you are in a disadvantage and to a certain extend will paean you lose.

You’ve seen the MPL, so we’ve both seen the same. Half the roster hasn’t seen play, part of the heroes used played terribly bad.

Because none of those heroes are off meta lol, specially inara, Baptiste who are hard meta and Catherine who is plain op right now.

I don’t agree at all, not even close, but as I don’t want this thread to become a balance thread I won’t expand on this.


Yeah I anglea Player I use new supp items it’s like old iron guard contract I’m right?

I like how ML make you feel excited every patch with changes and new game mode like one for all for aram it’s really good idea :bulb:.

I’m very excited to see their 1.4 update current version
1.3.88 so I expect so much stuff.

Mid: Samuel, Celeste, Malene = 3 heroes
Bot: Kestrel, Gwen, Kinetic, Kensei, Caine, Leo = 5 heroes.
Jungle: Inara and… I don’t know, I don’t control jungle.
Top and Roam: almost every tank is viable. Basically except top and support, most roles have few heroes to choose.

Roam is the role with more options (same with top) lol, don’t know what are you talking about.

Glaive bot is not meta, just some people are tired of the meta so some of them are playing whatever they feel like, but it doesn’t mean he is “meta”. Ringo is viable but… not too much.

It’s funny to see how some people still think that the meta is good and every hero is balanced whereas the reality is that almost half of the rooster is not even viable and we have around 4 boosted heroes (Caine, Yates, Lyra, Catherine and Leo).


The meta is not good and every hero is not balanced. I think you missed my point entirely.

I just genuinely believe there are more viable picks than the majority of people use. Even something like Baptiste is never played in soloQ despite being phenomenal. Glaive isn’t a meta bot lane, he’s certainly not on par with Leo or Gwen on average, but in the right situation there are a lot more picks than you see in general.

No one is on par with him :confused:

I was talking in general, not specific about you when I said that.

Many people think that there are more viable heroes that what generally people think, but again, I am still waiting to see any of those. And I mean viable in the meta, not just playable because people gets tired of the meta. I want to see those “unknown viable picks” being viable in a normal draft. About Baptiste… I don’t understand why people say he is not good in soloQ when in VG people should be able to play around him no matter in solo or pentaQ, is like CW on released: people saying that he was weak in SoloQ because nobody knew how to play around him and ended being OP.