This thread was originally created and posted on the old forums by @jinko. Archived by @OneEyeOpen. Last edited on Aug 24 2017.
I am Jinko, a Vainglory player, just like you. I love Vainglory so much that I created my own Youtube channel, 100% about Vainglory. And, since a few weeks, my most watched series by far, that made my subscriber’s count EXPLODE, is the “Vainglory Experiments” series.
The point of this series is to test how an ability will react with another, find ways to crash the game(sorry devs), push the limits of the game and more. If you want to watch videos such as 100 mines VS Kraken, Catherine’s passive stacked to 999 and more, click here to access the full Vainglory Experiments playlist.
But since the beggining, my goald wasn’t to only show you what I can do with 999 stacks of Catherine’s passive, how I can crash the game using the gold miner and a turret or how you make two Idris ult into each other. That’s funny. That’s interesting. But there’s more to it. Something is missing in my videos: the explanations. And that’s what this thread is for: hypothesis from the players, explanations & answers from the devs! Because, even I don’t always (most of the time) understand what’s happening on my screen, or how it’s happening. So let’s ask questions and get some answers, shall we?! @VideoVillain will come to answer the ones he can, and he may call some other devs for help!
Questions about mines, raised by the 100 mines VS Kraken video :
- Is it right that the limit of mines you can use 50 for each team, for a total of 100 mines on the map?
We can’t limit ‘actors’ per side because what if one side likes using scout traps and the other doesn’t?
- What is the mine limit for?
This has to do with the ‘actor’ limit on the game. Basically, anything that occupies space in the game is considered an ‘actor’ and they get added and removed from the map as needed for all sorts of things from seeds to scout traps to minions and more. These ‘actors’ take up memory. The number of ‘actors’ allowed at any given time is limited but the exact number would have to be answered by @SurpriseBirthday. Regardless, when this limit is reached, the game starts to have issues because in order to account for adding more ‘actors’ it starts getting rid of things like the skins and models (which is why sometimes you see the minions are still there but invisible), because the ‘actors’ are more important than the visuals. But eventually the memory will run out and the game will crash if there are too many ‘actors’ and more try to spawn (like a new wave of minions). There are more things we need to work on to help fix when there are too many scout traps, for example, but it is not priority right now because unless someone is trolling and really trying to reach the limit, it’s actually very hard to reach that limit.
- How come 1 mine deals a lot of damages to players & objectives, but 100 mines deal less damages than a single mine?
This has to do with overloading one spot on the map with mines and then stunning or pulling a victim on top. If they all did full damage, then that’s an instant kill. So there is a formula (you’ll have to ask @SurpriseBirthday for it) that lessens the damage of a scout trap proportionally to how many scout traps are set off within a certain distance from each other.
Questions about projectiles, raised by the How long do projectiles last video :
- Are the projectiles’ ranges limits based on the time or on distance traveled?
Projectiles range is based on a time limit actually. And this limit is based on the importance of the attack (from a minion or a Hero) and how fast or slow it moves.
- Why do the projectiles have different range limits? For example: Celeste’s basic attack last 1 minute, but the Gauntlet’s projectile & the Crystal Miner’s basic attack both last for only 30 seconds, like most of the projectiles.
This limit is to ensure that attacks exist long enough to hit their targets. If it were range based, it would be too easy to outrun some slower attacks so it is time sensitive based on how slow they move and their importance. Celeste’s basic attack, for example, is deemed more important than an attack from the Crystal Miner so it travels for a longer time to ensure it can hit. These numbers can be looked at and adjusted if needed. Also, if these were ranged based, we’d have to add extra functions to calculate distance traveled and it would take up extra cycles and processing for no real reason, it’s easier to just countdown a timer and then make them go away.
- Why are the limits so big when it’s obvious that the situations showed in the video would never happen in a real-match situation? Why is there a limit at all?
Well, some of those situations are actually more possible in normal play than you might think, so they last long enough to get across the entire map and then some just in case And they are on a timer simply to guarantee they go away after ‘x’ amount of time of not having hit something since they are considered ‘actors’ and as mentioned above, the limit on ‘actors’ can be significant and cause problems, so we need to make sure they go away.
Question about the Gold miner crashing the game, raised by the Gold miner VS Turret glitch video :
- Why does the game crash when the gold miner kills a turret?
I am looking for the answer to this but do not have one as of yet. What my guess would be is that it relates to the announcer calls and when the “last hitter” comes through as a turret, the function call probably doesn’t account for that or recognize it or something of the sort and blows up, lol. But that’s just a guess.
- Is there a way to fix it? If yes, would you bother fixing it?
Yes, there is a way to fix it but until we are not swamped by other much more important things, it will remain as is.
- Could this glitch happen with other entities suchs as Crystal Miners & Jungle Minions?
I guess it technically could if my guess is correct. Anything the function is not expecting could blow it up, which means we need to rebuild that function (if it’s the problem) so that it is able to accept other entities as “last hitters”.
Question about getting a 15-15 tie in Blitz, raised by an experience I’ve made in private blitz :
While there’s a tie in a blitz mode, make 2 SAW shank each other at the same time.
We can see that the animations activate at the same time and the SAW both die at the same time.
- First try: The tie was 1-1 in sudden death. SAW kill themselves, the score is 2-2. Match didn’t end.
- 2nd try: The tie was 14-14 but NOT in sudden death, SAW kill themselves, and one of the SAW wins and the other loses.
- 3rd try: The tie was 14-14 in sudden death, SAW kill themselves, and one of the SAW wins and the other loses.
How come? How do the game choses the winner, and why this winner? Is it at random?
As far as I know the only reason one would win over the other is that the route that one packet took to get to the server was longer than another and so the “win” was given to the packet that showed up fastest. For the tie and match not ending, that’s when the packets show up at roughly the same time and so they are counted as "simultaneous"
Until we fix the other Blitz point issues though, we can’t be sure this is working right or not though.
- Why 2147483647 ?
This is the maximum INT value capable of being created with 32 bits.
- What causes this glitch?
From what I can tell, the damage formula calculates the damage against the enemy and since it is based on HP, when that HP changes mid-flight the value it was previously looking at doesn’t exist anymore and is likely assigned a random INT value instead of crashing the game. This value ruins the formula damage output, causing it to be severely high. It is very unlikely that this bug can happen for any other reason than HP value changing from a sold item after the formula calculation begins since any other factors (like Fountain heal or Lyra heal) are recalculated and added to the formula, but an item just disappearing is not recalculated.
As for the bouncing with the Cath shields, depending on the shield level and CP amount, etc. each bounce increases the damage by a % and so it is likely at or very close to the INT maximum already after the first bounce.
Question about the Flying/Floating Taka glitch:
- Why does using Taka’s A on Joule while she’s jumping make him stuck in the air?
There is a navigation layer that is used to accept inputs and move ‘actors’ around the map. If the vertical ‘Y’ axis of an ‘actors’ in the game is too far off, those inputs get messed up. Taka’s Y axis was being altered based on the enemy Joule’s Y axis instead of keeping track of his own. He was getting too far into the sky and the system could no longer get usable inputs for the navigation layer and so it looks like it freaked out, lol.
- Why is his body still considered on the ground for most of the abilities, but in the air for all the basic attacks?
Only guessing here but I’d say it is likely because most abilities are using the target’s ‘X’ and ‘Z’ points to locate the targets because that’s all that’s needed and skill shots don’t have “targets” anyway. Also, most abilities keep track of their own ‘Y’ axis, that’s why Koshka and BF don’t go up and join him, for example. However, basic attacks are using all axis so the visual GFX can go to the right spots even if the enemy is jumping away. The problem with making all abilities do this too (like Taka’s X-Retsu currently) is that this exact issue can happen. I would think targeted abilities with projectiles go to the right place though, like Ringo’s Ult, but maybe it’s already set to ignore a target’s ‘Y’ axis, not sure.
- How come Some abilities don’t work on him while other do? (Example: Phinn’s B will drag him, but not Phinn’s ult)
Also guessing, but any ability that causes knockback should move him back to his normal ‘Y’ axis simply because it resets this number, like Phinn’s B or Joule’s A ‘knockback portion’, Glaive’s A, Lance’s B. But Phinn’s Ult is not a knockback, but rather a drag along the ‘X’ and ‘Z’ axes. Maybe it could/should include ‘Y’ too - simply to make things look more natural, like pulling a Baron out of the sky, haha. Grumpjaw adjusts the enemy’s ‘Y’ axis as he gobbles them which is why Taka first gets knocked up even higher before going into his belly (the initial knockup is based on Taka’s current ‘Y’ so he goes higher, then it sets it to match Grumpjaw’s belly.
Question about the friendly fire glitch (one) (two):
In order to attack teammates, Ardan needed to have one of his talent, but not Ozo, meaning Ozo could attack his teammates in any gamemode. Does it mean that it was possible to do this with Ozo since his release in January 2016? If not, what caused the glitch?