I see from the replies in this thread that most if not all are in agreement that the current number of heroes in VG is small when compared to other MOBAs that have a good amount of resources behind them.
I also see that most are saying that hero production should continue indefinitely, but have not stated at what point production would be reasonable to be slowed down.
Here are my own thoughts and opinions on “number of heroes” plus with the other question posed in the first sentence of the first post in this thread.
- When do you think SEMC stops coming out with new VG heroes? (Section 01)
- What do you think a good limit is? (Section 01)
- Do you think they’ll stop at 50? (Section 01)
- Do they just keep going? (Section 01)
- What would you like to see? (Section 02)
Section 01 - Number of Heroes in VG.
To me, the current 47 heroes we have in Vainglory is quite decent.
Only a few are problematic, mainly being in a state that’s may require some attention and tweaks to bring them to a useable state in at least the casual level of play.
To answer Veritas’s questions:
-
SEMC will only truly ever stop developing and releasing heroes when they move on from Vainglory. I don’t see that happening anytime soon, and unlikely to happen if they keep up good work with the game.
-
Logically, there is no “good limit” for the number of heroes. Players of the game will always want more and more until they truly find a hero or a handful of heroes that they resonate with deeply. A good example of why there is no “good limit” is League of Legends. They have 143 characters and keep coming up with at least 2 to 3 new characters or revamps of older characters each year. A MOBA game that is truly good such as Vainglory, League of Legends and DoTA2 will continuously add more and more while growing slowly till the end comes for them. Whether they leave a lasting impression and go out with a bang or a whimper, that depends on the state they are in at that time and how well they have embedded themselves in the lives of the people that play them.
-
From my perspective, I think that it is not hard for the Vainglory devs that deal with hero development to continue onwards. There’s plenty of source materials from rival games and other objects of the world that can be used as the basis for the heroes that they are to make. Whether the product that they produce is good, bad or meh; it is up to the judgment of the end user. We all have our own taste in heroes, be it simply from a visual or mechanical standpoint or both. Not everyone states their likes on the social media sites we frequent, so we may never truly know whether a hero is beloved or not by someone unless we ask them directly or they express their like. However, we can get the general idea of how a hero fares from the stuff the community post all the time and this is generally an accurate representation of the community’s overview of the hero.
Section 02 - “What would I like to see.”
There are plenty of character designs that I wish Vainglory will have in the future. It doesn’t matter what role a character has as long as the visuals and it is to my liking. But this is only a portion of what I wish Vainglory will add and/or change for the future.
Some of the things I wish for the future are:
- A werewolf hero. Doesn’t have to be a wolf.
- A minotaur-like Alistair from League.
- A hero with just healing heroic perk and abilities.
- A hero that is akin to Moira from Overwatch.
- A terrain modifier and creation hero that makes sense and is not entirely trolly.
- A hero build around music like a bard.
- More transformation heroes with more wild imaginings.
- More Healing Flask like item variation in the sense that you can buy items that go into the Healing Flask slot early to the late game and they do different things.
- Similar to the above, more Scout Cam item options while also modifying it so that it doesn’t occupy an item slot in the standard six item inventory akin to the ones that League has.
- Variations of ‘jungle’ specific items that have the same passive but different stats that eventually build into wholly different Tier 3 items.
I could go on and on, but these are the ones I have in mind at the moment.
Section 03 - Number of Heroes in relation to Other Things.
This is a different topic that is somewhat but not wholly related to the main topic at hand. I just thought it’ll be interesting to just write it and put it out there.
Part 1: Number of Heroes & Ranked Restrictions.
This part is concerned with players that are just starting out.
First thing first, the restrictions for Ranked matches are:
-
3v3: Account Level 10 and 8 heroes unlocked.
-
5v5: Account Level 10 and 14 heroes unlocked.
Now, by just playing through the tutorials (or skipping them), completing the “Road to Ranked” Quests, logging in for seven days and leveling up the player account by playing; a player should:
- Obtain Catherine, Gwen (+ her Gangster skin) and Koshka from the get-go.
- Obtains Celeste, Lance, and Vox (+ his School Days skin).
- Taka (from the “Road to Ranked” Quests).
- 2 to 3 heroes priced at 8000 Glory, OR 3 to 4 heroes priced at 6000 Glory.
By the end of week one, a new player can feasibly meet the requirements for unlocking 3v3 Ranked matches.
Unlocking 5v5 Ranked Matches will take a bit longer if the player chooses to get the heroes they need via Glory obtained from playing and leveling up their account.
It’s not all bad if they spend money though, as the Market tends to:
- Offer hero bundles that are decently cheap.
- Offer ICE and/or/plus other items bundles that are decent or quite the steal.
- If the player starts on PC, they can buy the bundle offered there that contains enough heroes (seven of them) to meet the 5v5 Ranked Matches requirement in terms of hero count.
Now, increasing the number of heroes is good for newer players if SEMC decides to gradually add more and more heroes to be given out through the seven-day log-in after the tutorial and/or add more hero unlocks in the “Road to Ranked” Questline.
More heroes also are good for SEMC even if they give out more heroes for free as I stated above, as there is more stuff for newer players to buy, more skins as there are more heroes, and also keeps newer players busy for a while if they so choose to unlock heroes through unlocking using Glory.
The TL;DR for this part is:
- If we have more heroes, SEMC can give out more heroes to new players freely. This reduces the grind they have to go through at the early stages, retaining their interest and populating the ranked queues, even if it’s at the lower tiers. Additionally, they make more money and give new players something to grind for.
Part 2: Number of Heroes & Bans in the Draft Phase.
Sometimes, there just enough OP heroes in a patch that the Ban Phase in Draft cannot eliminate from appearing in our matches.
The solution to this is, of course, increasing the amount of Ban slots available. This might sound simple, but it presents an interesting conundrum.
If SEMC increases the number of slots for Bans in the Draft Phase, the number of heroes a player must have unlocked increases along with it. This inevitably increases the grind for newer players before they can access Ranked Matches. Something that I feel is more prominent for 5v5 rather than 3v3 should it happen.
I guess this is one of the reasons they haven’t increased the number of Ban slots for 3v3 Ranked Matches eh?
Of course, there are solutions to overcoming the increased number of heroes needed to be unlocked for Ranked Matches. One of them I have already written in Part 1 of this section in a way. Another is to adjust the Glory and ICE costs of heroes, not permanently but through weekly promotions and such.
Increasing the number of heroes is beneficial from this point of view, as it enables SEMC to both increases the number of Ban slots in Draft Phase, and give out heroes to newer players more so they can unlock Ranked Matches faster or roughly retain the same amount of time required to grind for unlocking heroes before the restrictions were increased.
The TL;DR for this part is:
- If we have more heroes, SEMC can increase the number of Ban slots in Draft Phase for Ranked Matches. Though it increases the Ranked restrictions for newer players, this can be offset by simply giving out more heroes or Glory freely through things like the seven-day log-in system and the “Road to Ranked” for newer players as well as doing hero discounts through bundles and timed promotions.
Part 3: Number of Heroes & Released Heroes with Problematic Designs.
This one is a bit of a reverse of the previous two parts. Increasing the number of heroes, in my opinion, means gradually adapting the kits of problematic heroes that were released in a better fashion and balance. The heroes whose kits were adapted get left behind in a weakened state and become or remain not viable in most if not all tiers.
However, don’t despair. Every cloud has a silver lining they always say.
By increasing the number of heroes, SEMC will gradually hit a point similar to how Riot eventually did. This point is where the hero production gets reduced to once every few months rather than a release every month.
By that time, I’m sure they can shift resources to work on released older heroes with problematic kits. Just look at League for examples. Urgot, Nunu (now Nunu and Willump), Warwick and Yorick. They were left in a poor state for so long and only in the past year or two did they get revamped - visually and mechanically to a certain extent.
The TL;DR for this part is:
- If we have more heroes, SEMC will gradually give us heroes with better designed (and maybe easier to balance) kits that take inspiration or parts of released heroes that have problematic kits. The continual production will eventually reach a point where SEMC can reduce hero production output and began looking at older heroes that need a revamp.
Break
Phew, that took a while to type up. Hope you all find it useful!
