So...After Winter Days Dark With Trolling, I Had THE Most Epic Match Ever

Whaat no way her range comes in handy for someone like samuel and her b can stop his pushes. I mean shes got her strength issues but it’s her utility for sniping and setting up mine fields that becomes a deadly threat from mid, long range and short that can be harsh on samuel because hes a pusher.

Also I could be wrong but it seems like it lasts way longer to overdrive his b. I find it more useful than his ult because you only use that for traps and set ups more than killing. And no it’s multiple matches. I’ve consistently destroyed whole teams with samuel lol once i get my frostburn and mortal wounds.

As for baron cp and yeah energy is a struggle but if you build eve first it solves most early game issues instantly, lets him just bomb a minion wave and heal up from it. I usually just get eve and sf first because once you got those two you can hold your lane and get decent range to fight ranged heroes. By the time you get your real power items you can just sit there holding your lane almost infinitely and your mortal wounds really help out your team.

As for the assassin thing they somewhat counter but his dd and ult make it annoying to dive on him because he can just pop an ult on himself and whoops, ya look dumb sitting there xD.

As for skaarf he’s great early! Huh? You just poke everyone for a bit and stay really far from bushes as much as possible lol. Once he gets his ult and defense/lifesteal it’s pretty much over lol. He’s just gonna roast you at any range. Idk, i guess it’s how i play. I agree he suffers kinda late game and he can’t be all that flexible on his builds due to his energy requirements. One thing I do agree on is his aoe is definitely lacking on his b due to the terrible slow it provides nowadays.

I gotta get good at editing so i can show you guys. One day when i can sit and take the time on pc or something. Like there’s no way he should be able to carry as badly as he can. It really doesn’t feel fair. Kind of reminds me of Reza when he still had the super short cooldown on his b.

Skaarf is OG. No doubt about it. Mobility is easily made up for with ridiculous range. Landing the skill shots aren’t that hard. Void battery is a great early investment.

I also find Baron very effective as a diver late into a team fight with a wp build with a tension bow charge locked and loaded. Both are great carries. I do prefer more of a poking play style, and thus prefer the CP path you’re mentioning, but wp Baron is fun!

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Completely agree, I do the same! And I’m usually not as good with wp or non poke heroes as well but dang do people get salty when you pick weird flexes into cp! I never really learned wp baron but wouldn’t mind it. Just always preferred more range and bombing over more att speed and I always felt like baron’s immobility makes him way more late game than cp baron but that’s just my opinion.

I had a brilliant game just a few days ago. 3v3, I locked in Gwen pretty quick and did not care, just because I was so tired of playing captain. Allies lock in Idris and Skye. Great. It’s gonna be a fight for farm. Sure enough, it is. Luckily I’m pretty good at that. Even so, We’re 8 kills down before we get our first, enemy has a balanced team of Ringo, Kestrel, Lorelai. By the time the match ends it’s 32-11 kills to them, with me going 9/7/1. But, we won. I completely carried us. My allies did zero. Nil. Nada. Ok tbf the Idris did solo the Kraken at one point but he did just about everything else in the game solo too, trying to 1v3 and so on. He finished 0/12/6 and the Skye 2/13/2. It was a match I did not expect to win, and we had absolutely no business winning, but it shows that if you don’t give up, anything is possible. If your mentality is right, you will win. Just don’t tilt.

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WP Baron is hard to learn if you prefer poke. Essentially, you have to ignore your A pretty much (the exact opposite when you go the CP bath). You have to understand that his mortars are just not nearly as effective with wp. The slow is nice, but really, your basic attacks and the splash that come with it is your best bet for damage and for wave clearing. Knowing when to use your B and to time it with tension bow is great. He’s a completely different hero wp vs cp.

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Lmao I understand the pain. Getting unranked so far in a season at lower levels is a pain but it has to be done. But you know what the real problem is, from what I see? People are watching play videos and trying to play like the pros not understanding that this is a game you HAVE to master the main mechanics of before you can be successful at roaming around the map solo or trying to carry your team, and you just can’t look at a late game build and think you’re gonna play like that early unless you know what to do with practice. I have learned most of the cp heroes and builds because it just makes more sense to me to have power in your abilities and basics, take a balanced approach, and just let skill handle the rest, but I quickly learned that it’s a careful strategy game of timing what kinda power you need early to manage the rest of your time late game. I rarely bother to learn wp heroes because i don’t like non-poke and run but i do like wp assassins a bit. And I also learned to enjoy a lot of wp flexes with cc more than straight wp.

Anyway, just ranting a little to give some useful advice to anyone who listens. I think another issue is just people aren’t as willing to let people try different stuff due to just how bad most players are like it at low ranks nowadays, and i really think we need to step back as a whole and stop thinking that just because you saw a pro video or even if you are good, doesn’t mean you either a) know the intricacies of being a pro until you try or b) know exactly what strategies your team should take, because that’s the main thing i think is leading to so much trolling besides people actually just being bad: everyone thinks they know exactly what to do and we gotta get back to just trying shit out.

Problem is also everyone tries to rush games at terrible times and think they can always one trick but again, i don’t ever underestimate my opponent. I had one person was moving slow and walking into moves, not setting cams up, i thought i could steamroll and big mistake. Idk if someone else started playing or what but damn they suddenly went soo hard outta nowhere and carried their team to victory and it literally came out of nowhere, how their skill level changed. I’ve had so many people underestimate that I could 1v3 with a off-meta pick and get sorely disappointed by noy trying to strategize.

And a little tidbit for the forums, I was a damned strategist by trade as a teen so, this is the kinda guy you’re facing lmao.

Exactly. I definitely picked up on that. Just from watching good people play him and I am just not good at building him up yet. It feels like he’s more of an attacker as wp like skye and a supporting cp hero like cp lorelai as cp, just through his proc effects and minion clear potential not outright attacking except to pick off a disadvantaged team or push or stop pushes.

@MacAulay I had a ruthless game like that myself recently and it made no sense to win like it was literally 1v4 by end game for me, we still still steamrolled with dragon released on us and everything, and so yeah. Definitely know your pain but damn is it satisfying to come back like that and watch everybody on the enemy team start misestimating their pushes because they seem to intent on killing you off that they make mistakes.

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I agree with you. I have even been victim to that myself. I see pros play mean vox/idris cp mid. Then I want my team to do that. If they’re no good with them, then it’s better if they do something else. I also hate the culture of dodging just because people think they’ve lost the draft. This is why YouTube channels, such as Excoundrel’s can cause some harm (although they’re mostly great and overall conceptually informative). They’re often giving pro tips, but most people aren’t pro. If you’re a really good alpha in jungle, go alpha, even if they may have your counter picked. What if the other team is just picking what is meta but they’re not experienced with it? Meanwhile, your team is going off meta but you’re all playing heroes/roles that you’re comfortable with. I give the advantage to the latter!

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Picking a hero that is already countered doesn’t make sense. I would dodge too, doesn’t matter if you are awesome with that hero. It’s better to pick a hero that isn’t countered despite it not being your best one.

My point is that what if the counter player is not as good? What if the alpha actually outplays him/her? People are so fixated on things going exactly according to plan. It doesn’t have to be that way in tiers 6-9. At t10, I get it.

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And if not? If the player with the counter isn’t bad with it? All your strategy in a ranked match is your enemy being bad?

Not my strategy. My point is echoing that of one that was made earlier by Interpreter that just because it’s meta or a pro did it in a vid, doesn’t necessarily mean a player who hasn’t practiced that role, build, or hero should. If you aren’t good with mechanics yet, if you’re not comfortable with multiple roles and heroes yet, you’re doing your team more harm than good by simply making a “appropriate” pick for the sake or doing so. My other point is that at some of these lower elos, people do just that and they play worse than they would have if they just picked what they’re better at, even if it’s countered. That counter may be inexperienced with that hero trying to copycat a pro while you’re teammate is very experienced with his/hero hero. Again, this likely relates more to tiers 6-8.

Ultimately, there is no argument to your point as it is objectively correct. Draft phase is critical and it’s important for players to be versaitle in what roles and heroes they can play to have the best chance of winning the draft.

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People don’t dodge because of meta that much though. In a way yes, if there’s widely accepted broken hero they’d dodge if you give it away for no reason. But mostly people would dodge if you pick something like SAW or other troll pick or if you’re a well known troll/trolled a previous game with the same people. Anyway I hate dodging myself but as long as it goes unpunished you can’t really expect much else…

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@Lebatron I completely agree. I’ve had bad drafts against me that just being more careful and stalling out makes it possible for us to win even if the enemy was good. Problem at low levels is everyone needs to do that to some degree in order to make the draft still work, and people don’t, or they assume that you can’t do something like try to wittle down and bait your opponent into team fights where their counter can finish off. It’s really a game of chess. And lots of people do better with their favorite hero because they can better manage their time and allocate their placing on the map than with a counter. And I definitely agree that the focus on pro videos showing of gameplay rather than them being more mini tutorials that show how game strategy develops over time in chunks can be part of the problem.

Look @Guest_78 you’re making a valid point but can’t their be less salt in your answers? At least on my thread? Jeez, not to discourage you from responding.

I mean come on man.

He didn’t even say that. At all. He’s saying we both have valid opinions that may be valid at different times.

@Bobmax saw isn’t a troll pick if you just play him different than what he’s intended for. Also dodging does go punished. Especially if you do it repeatedly. It happens to me all the time when i forget to pay attention to the timer lol.

He literally said “My point is that what if the counter player is not as good?” he is basing the success of the pick in the enemy being bad.
I didn’t mean to seem salty, it’s just that doing that in ranked is asking for a more difficult match than it should be, why would you do that? There is no reason.

No, saw in high tiers is a troll pick, anyone that picks him should spect to be dodged or trolled the whole match.

When 2 people pick mid and 1 actually locks a hero for mid then the other one picks SAW it is nothing but troll pick. When people are just joking around and banning/soft locking heroes it’s always SAW, Petal and Ozo. Like it or not they’re troll picks. Not always troll picks but can you tell me 1 other hero that’s associated with trolling more than those 3?

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Look I really do think we can agree to disagree. I don’t see saw as a troll pick because as cp he can poke up stacks, run up on a badly timed enemy opening with knife, or pop your heal and run in to distract enemies to you or actually get in range to use your C and push from behind with your team, and as wp you can just proc a heal pot and run up to spin up close enough range in teamfights while your enemy has to decide to either chew through your shield to get you or run or worry about your teamates so you have a few seconds to get a good spray in and knife pop out. That’s why I say they work if you switch up how you play. It’s just my opinion though. We don’t HAVE to agree.

It’s a ‘what if’ scenario. It’s not strategy. This has nothing to do with strategy, to be honest. I prefer to play things out some times. I’m at least going to ask the person in the draft lobby chat why they picked what they did. If they tell me it’s who they are best with, why dodge?

It’s more about the culture of the game. We complain about long wait queues, but then dodge the second something isn’t perfect? Sounds pretty unproductive to me.

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