VG Community Forums

Should stormcrown be removed


#21

This.

Stormcrown has been flouting around for years now, why when it finally has a proper identity as a jungle clear and contest tool that helps define the jungle position would it be removed?


#22

Not removed but changed. 30303030


#23

It’s alright if you do not agree with the where the item is right now, but you are wrong if you think it is useless.

It is literally core on the majority of junglers, and has a strong identity as both a jungle clear item, and the "smite’ of vainglory which allows junglers to have last hit priority over non junglers assuming they properly time it. Anyone who knows how to play out this patch will go SGB on every jungle except Reim and Krul. Heroes with good damage scaling such as Melene sell it while more utility orientated heroes can get away into finishing it into SC. As of now it is the jungle item


#24

To be honest, at this point Stormcrown is pretty awkward. Yes the burst of true damage is indeed strong when contesting dragons or krakens, however if the enemy team can zone you out, the burst damage is rather useless, One more offense item might help u take down the ones trying to zone you out and maybe even make the enemy give up fighting the dragon.


#25

I don’t know if you are replaying to me, but in case you are doing so: I don’t think it is useless, just that should be changed and develop, at least SGB should have a third WP and CP I team apart from the SC


#26

They reduced the damage It deals to Kraken and dragons, so its not that effective to contest.


#27

well still more than most other source of damage to monsters in general


#28

Certain abilities deal more damage (like Celeste’s supernova).


#29

Ok so here’s an idea: Remove SC, but keep SGB. Make it an early game item which junglers can buy to have better clear early, and then sell later when they don’t need it. Kinda like contracts (Which need a rework, but that’s another matter). I think VG needs items like this.


#30

That’s basically how it works now lol. Most junglers don’t finish it into Stormcrown. And that is the problem. Everybody needs to build it. If you don’t build it you have bad clear and you can’t contest jungle in invades or your jungle defends.


#31

I think it removed starting build diversity which is a negative but it has contributed to a healthier game. I think a price of 300 with no health would be a reasonable change to allow starting item diversity.


#32

I don’t like getting banner at all. It was cool when it was situational item. Heroes that have bad clear could get it for better clear and I had no problem with it then. I don’t hate the item itself. Even built it a lot. But now clear speed basically doesn’t matter. It’s all the same. If they don’t give us items to finish into it’s just bad in my opinion. If it’s 300 it might lose you less gold but on the other hand your laner will just grab one to steal your buff.


#33

SGB doesn’t actually put you behind in gold though, because it helps farming so much. I’ve tested it on a few different heroes, and I typically earn a SG or SB at about the same time as I would have had I started with 2 Crystal bits or weapon blades. It slows a jungler down if their mostly sponging ambient from a laner, but if the jungler is jungling then the improved clear speed rapidly compensates for the initial 600 gold.

It shouldn’t be built into Stormcrown on every jungler, but even if you sell it it’s just extra gold. SGB speeds up most builds.


#34

If normal builds let you clear jungle without it then it’s still putting you behind. That’s the point. You’re not allowed to buy anything else. If it literally put you behind compared to double blade or bit then it wouldn’t be bought every game on every jungler. Point is it’s forced and you’re 600 gold behind laners early game.


#35

Normal builds don’t let you clear as quickly though. The 600 gold for SGB is 600 you don’t earn without it. Put it this way: if you start with SGB you will earn 3000 gold as fast as you could earn 2400 gold had you started with 2 Crystal bits. You end up just getting your tier 3 item in addition to SGB.

It doesn’t even set you back much from getting your first tier 2 item.

I’m not positive whether SGB beats 2 weapon blades or crystal bits versus players, but that really only matters for the first 2 or 3 minutes of the game anyway, because once you can buy a tier 2 item the tier 2 + SGB is more damage.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate SGB because it’s madatory, but it’s mandatory because it’s that much better than the alternatives. Starting with WP or CP does not help you build WP or CP faster.


#36

I remember when captains used to buy it back in 2015-2016 like fortress and ardan. It honestly should be revamped in some way tho so it can be used as a true captain item


#37

It’s not supposed to be used as a true captain item.


#38

I just said that myself… It is built because it is the only way to clear jungle. If you have banner Taka fighting 2 blades Taka the banner will lose. In 1v1 it actually has less impact. In Ganks though. You don’t fear dying. You just need damage. Having damage would be much better. It is putting you behind because you buy something that has no use outside of farming. It is needed but it still costs you gold. Yes in doesn’t put you behind compared to the other jungler but that’s because he’s forced to get one as well. It does put you behind compared to everyone else. Last patch for example I could have the best jungle clear with Reim with 2 bits. Then immediately rush T3 boots. Now I have to waste 600 gold which means I don’t have hero damage. Then I can either get boots but lack damage or get bits and not have boots. Now I am just giving example. I know Reim is very strong currently but that’s not the point. It goes for other heroes. It’s just that for him, Ylva and other boots reliant heroes it’s way more important.


#39

That was its original purpose though, It was created for captains to clear lane while remaining tanky. They should have created another item to suit the whole jungler/jungle problem instead of removing a way for captains to help.


#40

This will be a bit too long for me to type out so I will just give the cliff-notes version of what I personally have in mind for Vainglory’s itemization.

Ever since Flask become a standalone consumable for heroes it started making me wonder. Can we potentially expand upon that idea?

My idea is that you can select certain consumable items at the start of the match to better suit your role.

In that same thought process, Stormguard Banner in my mind could be a standalone passive item that you can select to use instead of flask. Stormguard Banner however will have to be changed from it’s current form if it is to become a standalone consumable with a charge time. Things like giving the Jungler more benefits when taking down jungle monsters. Maybe things like immunity to the Dragon’s mortal wound.

I would definitely like to expand on this idea a lot more.

But the basic gist of what I want is for Stormguard Banner to be a item you can choose for where you currently place Flask. Than you can upgrade it to a stormcrown at certain levels.

This will give the Jungler a much more defined role while no longer forcing players to have to pay their precious 600 gold on one item at the start of the game. You will instead of a timed consumable.