Roamers/captains in 5v5

(NOTE: This is not a salt thread or something toxic. This is just me honestly trying to tell some things as they are. I am sorry ahead of time if I come off aggressive or salty.

I cant help but notice that people treat support in 5v5 like a totally different role than from 3v3. They honestly act like they are playing mobile legends (where supports are basically tank hyper carries with a lot of CC). Here is a list of the bad things I see people do when they play roam in 5v5:

  • They steal farm, by accident through just not caring who gets it as well as stealing it on purpose ( a thing I’ve noticed many supports doing is building an early stormguard banner to steal the farm easier).
  • They build carry items such as Alternating Current, Aftershock, Tension Bow, and a favorite being Dragons Eye.
  • They never buy the Super Scout 2k so they are left providing minimal vision and even when they do buy it they almost always forget to use the flares it provides.
  • Some supports I’ve seen have even been very selfish in team fights, often opting to make sure they get the kills, get out first, and even sometimes popping items just so they can come out of the match with a nice looking KDA.
  • The worst thing I have seen though is that they often ignore their team. They will ignore pings, ignore allies in need of assistance, and wonder around the map taking farm by themselves and they never seem to show up in an actual team fight until there are kills to be stolen.

I just want it to be clear that I am not saying every roam is like this. I have seen just as many good and talented roamers as I have the ones like these. And I am not hating on anyone with this. I am just trying to make some things seem a bit clearer about what is generally a negative way to play support.

Please dont take this a salt post or shit post. Just please understand that supporting in 5v5 is just the same as 3v3 with some minor and a few major differences. Helping your team is they key and that means babysitting them :joy:

Thanks for reading and once again please do not take this the wrong way.

1 Like

Give it some time. People are still figuring 5v5 out… new meta, new items, new interface… it’s going to take some adjusting. Roam has felt very dynamic to me so far, and quite a lot different from a typical 3v3 match.

As for your points:

Role-specific farm is less important in 5v5 than it was in 3v3, since you’re not scaling towards inevitable teamfights. It’s just as viable to avoid fights by split-pushing, so long as you can scale enough as a team to defend, mis-direct, and focus aggression elsewhere on the map. I agree that roamers shouldn’t take lane farm when their teammates are actively there to farm it, but it’s not as huge a deal if they nick a couple here and there. Carries should realize, though, that lanes are better pushed than stalled, generally, because it allows you to roam and exert pressure. I build an early stormguard to help with this (while avoiding taking the farm myself).

This was always an issue in 3v3 though, too, right? In 5v5, it’s more viable, but depends on the roam in question and the item in particular and the intent of the purchase… Heroes like Grace or Flicker can poach enemy jungle and start a snowball. Also, sometimes your team is slowly, but surely, losing… either by rushing in one after the other instead of coordinating damage throughout the team (thus minimizing your healing effectiveness), or having horrible objective awareness, and you need to buy damage to split push on your own. But I hear what you’re saying about roams buying damage for no real reason - that’s annoying.

Yup. Vision’s always a tricky thing. The good news is that in 5v5, it’s more obviously a team effort, so you can help out with it. As for flares lol yeah, it takes a while to get used to new items having them, and separating the ‘place’ mechanic from the ‘flare’ mechanic.

This is interesting… I think it’s more complicated than roams glory-hunting for good KDAs. Roams get deleted much more easily now with 5 sources of damage rather than 3, so what you might be seeing is roams going in early, then filtering out of the front line, and coming back in when their skills are off cool-down, nabbing the kill. Carry mains aren’t as used to this kind of intra-fight rotation, because glass cannons are kind of all-or-nothing. As people (carries and roams) learn how to manage teamfights better, you might see less of this.

True of all players in all roles, not just roams. Map awareness and communication are things the player-base on the whole needs to get better at, in my opinion.

7 Likes

Okay some of what your saying I agree with, some I don’t…

DE can be an incredible efficient tool in a supports kit; Grace heals for instance in fact all her abilities get a buff based on CP stats. Building this aint half as bad as you think. Other supports like fortress Catherine etc can benefit from an item like AS, in the carse of an aggressive support like fortress I’d say it’s standard.

Having said that I agree, nothing is more annoying than having a support who doesn’t buy vision. Part of the role is to provide good map coverage to help team mates, when middle laning its incredible hard to push when you know enemy has ample vision and you don’t. And don’t get me started on supports who don’t build fountains, it can and does decide team fights, if the opposition has one and don’t have to recall you’re on the back foot.

Part of the problem is we lack rank, low skill players are getting matched with better players. I think there is a misconception that everyone has vision and healing now so these items are no longer mandatory for supports.

Lol true bruh its like 5v5 just opended the flood gates to untactical gameplay in general. One team just tries outnumber the other team and its gg.
I am a roam main myself so ive noticed even if you peel and support 1 or 2 of ur laners to the best of your ability it doesnt have as much effect as in 3v3. Between a few roamers like arden and grace (catherine odd occasion ) most of the other roamers are lacking in teamwide impact to effect fights.
I just buy a fountain now and rest damage items to help my team best as i can.

(I am still learning how to use the code on this so sorry that im not actually quoting lol)

@Glowarm IDK man call me set in my ways but it can be very aggravating for me to see a roam with anything other than roam items and the exception clockwork or poison shiv. I do see the benefits of what you say though with for instance grace having Dragons Eye. All you have to do is whammy the enemy team with a benediction or 2 combined with some AA’s and your heal will be insane lol.

@HipsterSkaarf I really am appreciative of your feedback man because its a nice and chill response with your opinions on every point I made which is a nice break from the people who get hung up on 1 point just because they think it is super valid or super stupid lmao. I agree with everything you have to say its just that it can be really hard to think that way. A lot of the people I’ve seen do this are mid to higher tiers who should know better but act like they dont care if they do or not. Positive thinking is something I struggle with unfortunately lmao

Early SGB to steal enemy camps and apply objective damage makes this reasonable. Also, wave clear is super important. Laners have a tendency to not mind their lane during the mid-game. A SC to address unchecked waves is nice. Also, junglers have a tendency to just not take the Big Bears. If they are leaving camps untouched, the roam should take them.

Some roams are really a second lane ganker early on and can justify an AS, TB, SG. Semi-carry roams are viable such as a Lyra or Lorelai with Crucible, SS2K, Fountain, WT, AC, SG/DE.

Not buying SS2K is unforgivable. It’s arguably the best roam item in the game right now.

Early engage, retreat, heal, re-engage is a very reasonable action by roams. No hero can just tank 5 player focused damage. Not even a fully build Phinn is going to hold up long.

All players ignore pings. It’s not just a roam problem.

3 Likes

TBH I think it’ll get better once SEMC fixes activatable icon sizes. As of right now, they are WAY too small, and this makes it harder/pushes some low-mid tier roams/supports away from building the normal full support builds.

I have tried roaming twice in 5v5. I love roaming in 3v3…

In 5v5 I wish they’d delete the role altogether.
Most of the players aren’t worth saving.
Your impact is 10% at best, no damage means no impact.

You are far too fragile and cannot tank hits like you did in 3v3.

Roaming/captain sucks horribly in 5v5. I blame Semc for nerfing most defense items. There is no way to tank damage in 5v5. You are way too reliant on your team.

I feel it is much better for every laner to pick a crucible or a fountain and both junglers pick up some utility.

Delete captains. Just do it. the captain role is the source of trolling and frustration.

If they don’t rework half of the captains I won’t ever play one.

Better off to play a captain as a carry and use the utility+CP scaling for your team.

I am guilty of all the things you said. Why? See above ^

1 Like

some of my friends said that jungler should be a roamer too, but im confused coz im mainly use jungler as my fav hero, should jungler buy cam SS2K too?

I had a phinn let me tank on crystal miner without contributing to any of the damage then one last hit it.

Then I gave the benefit of the doubt when I took the gold duo.

I was already tilted from the last match, then turret dove the rest of the match.

It is a very impactful role if you are playing in a party. In 3v3 you could soloq as a roam and have huge impact but in 5v5 in soloq you are not going to have much impact but that doesn’t make the role useless. If you are having vision control using superscout and remove enemy vision they are blind for about 2 mins and have to react to you instead of making moves boldly and more prone to make mistakes. Roams need to be a bit more tanky, I definitely don’t like seeing a Gwen chunk down 60-70% of my health with an AA+A+ult+AA combo but roaming is more fun in 5v5 than with 3v3. FoR is still an unavoidable item, crucible can change teamfights if you prevent that phinn from landing a hook or a catherine silence. Defense item nerfs did nothing to reduce roam tankiness because they never built an aegis or built AP more than MJ, it is the 2 more damage sources which make them less tanky

1 Like

I’m reaching stress levels that shouldn’t be possible

Well I just lost a 5v3 as CW, its the carry who decide if you can win or not, so dont complain

Untrue. If you had double CP enemy you build both fountain and aegis.

Vs raw damage WP heroes like Kestrel you build MJ over Atlas to tank hit.

Hell I remember building double MJ on catherine vs a double wp comp

Now if you are the fontliner you get blow up.

I had 40+ stacks on cath a fountain and a t2 armour with my bubble up I was blown to bits.

If you want to lose or try rng play captain in 5v5 you are sure to give up any chance to affect the game.

Baron,gwen, kestrel were the few Wp heroes against whom MJ is better than AP but most WP carries rely on attack speed which makes it better a better option. Defense has diminishing returns, if one player gets a bonesaw/BM one extra item slot you dedicate for double MJ or a BM against FoR/Aegis goes waste. Every non healing captain has a perk increasing their tankiness or damage reduction and healers have heal. 40+ stacks with armor and her B up and you are getting blown? No single hero has so much damage to blow up a tanky roam in seconds unless you are walking into a 5 man ambush which you are not supposed to survive, I mean how will you feel if you hit an opposing grace with everything you have and she still walks out like nothing happened

It was a 4 man engage. I stunned someone near the bushes and there were 3 people behind him. Grace can use A+B and stay relatively safe…
Cath gets blown to shreds.

Captains with singular skills suck!

1 Like

Singular skills? Single person targetting skills?

1 Like

Think you’ll find the meta in 5v5 is slightly different, roamers will still be there to offer utility but fight durations are shorter, there’s so much DPS reigning down on players than the traditional roam roll has changed.

Personally I try to lay down vision, I’ll buy a fountain and crucible but I’ll also pick up some CD and DMG items; I tend to give armour a miss as I just don’t feel it’s as versatile as other options. I’m almost playing as a second jungler supporting lane pushes and ganks.

My Grace build would be crucible, fountain, war threads, Echo, DE and vision. It’s not that difficult to build up stacks in team fights and the huge double heal along with fountain give your team a great advantage. I might be wrong but I also believe her CP ratio effects her shield buff which is applied to all allies. DE isn’t such a silly buy…

Personally I feel captains are going to have more of an impact in 5v5. Well times atuns, blocks and heals will turn fights, and maintaing vision across the map for allies is going to be critical.

Think you’ll find the meta in 5v5 is slightly different, roamers will still be there to offer utility but fight durations are shorter, there’s so much DPS reigning down on players than the traditional roam roll has changed.

Personally I try to lay down vision, I’ll buy a fountain and crucible but I’ll also pick up some CD and DMG items; I tend to give armour a miss as I just don’t feel it’s as versatile as other options. I’m almost playing as a second jungler supporting lane pushes and ganks.

My Grace build would be crucible, fountain, war threads, Echo, DE and vision. It’s not that difficult to build up stacks in team fights and the huge double heal along with fountain give your team a great advantage. I might be wrong but I also believe her CP ratio effects her shield buff which is applied to all allies. DE isn’t such a silly buy…

Personally I feel captains are going to have more of an impact in 5v5. Well times atuns, blocks and heals will turn fights, and maintaing vision across the map for allies is going to be critical.

Both sides of my last 5v5. We were getting smashed kill wise. I was the midlaner and went full carry build wise. Could have taken crucible over aegis for a team wide block.

My point is as a midlaner I healed as much as any captain would have without a fountain on me.

Rona and I were a tag team in some very crucial fights where I kept her alive and empowered through my A and B. Scaring off/killing people with my Ult.

As a captain my influence would have been minimal at best. As a Laning carry captain my influence on the game was far greater.

Captains are dead. All hail captains (as laners)