Reza, L3oN, &c with a side of bickering


#61

There’s no counterplay and his power spike is too strong to happen that early. Why would do we have to run sub optimal heroes just because of an overbearing assassin?


#62

You cant, thats why they have to Buff warriors, but nerfing an assassin just because he can kill squishy heroes 1v1 its not the way. They have to eventually buff warriors so… Again, he is under 50% win Rate, so he doesnt seem that oppressive.


#63

If you buff warriors to the point of being viable in bot tanks won’t be effective in top. All though I agree some warriors should be buffed but not to the point of them being have to be used in bot to counter a single overbearing assassin.
Whats that, a high skill cap hero has 49.5 winrate in vgpro. Guess that means he’s balanced right?
WRONG. Heroes with compicated kits like that should never have a winrate close 50%. They shoudnt even be meta picks imo and btw vgpro mentions him as one of the OP heores too.


#64

Reza isnt that hard to use though, its not like a Lance or Lorelai. They used to be viable in bot, but got destroyed. Why wouldnt tanks be viable in top? I dont understand the problem of an assassin killing a squishy hero, if he cant do that why would you even chose him?


#65

He was hard to play. He’s relatively easy now but his skill ceiling is still high. A good reza 1v2.
Tanks won’t be able to fend of warriors because they have much better sustain.
There should be counterplay against assassins. Against reza you can’t even play safe.


#66

Why do you pretend to beat an assassin with a squishy hero that is supposed to be hard countered by reza? I still dont get It. Thats the reason why ranged heroes will always dominate: whenever a melee hero can kill them everyone starts complaining.


#67

Dont even get me started about this.

People think VG is bad about this but its one of the games that this isnt a major problem


#68

Agree, assassins should be focused on mages and backline ranged squishies. Warriors should stand the ground vs assassins and beat them… right now warriors in general are so bad. You should be tanky to stay at the front line vs CP, WP, CC and whatnot and right now this is not the case by far… not to mention they don’t deal that much dmg at all (even for a warrior type of hero).


#69

Thats why i want warriors to be buffed. They cant do their job, which leads to assassins being nerfed time and time again, while ranged heroes… well are still there. Doing that only makes ranged heroes to not have counters.

But its not only with ranged heroes, look at Kensei, the last Nerf was because he was too strong, a tank assassin being strong in a tank meta was a problem. Of course he was strong! He hard countered the entire meta, same with reza: he counters squishy heroes, which are left in a 1v1 against their hard countered. Idk what people want about reza, to not kill those he hard counter? Then why pick him, why pick any counter? Mages hard counter Saw, please nerf them, he cant 1v1 against them. Krul wins almost all 1v1, please nerf him. I honestly dont understand this community.


#70

The kensei was a funny one as he literally countered the meta (as you said and we all know). The only hero that was great against tanks while everyone play tanks. :smiley:

Actually now he needs to be buffed to his antitank position as teams are not tanks only nowdays.


#71

Kensei countered the game just poor design on semc’s end


#72

Who said beat? Just counterplay where he’s not guaranteed to win lane even when the bot laner is playing safe. If there was a midlaner who can completely dominate the all other midlaner thats unbalanced. Thats what reza is doing in top lane. It’s not like he’s a hard counter to one hero. He wins against all bot laners. It doesn’t have if he melee or ranged. A single hero shoudn’t have so much power without requiring even a shred of build up.


#73

But with midland it’s different, a mage don’t ususally hard counter another mage, this isn’t a sniper against a sniper, this is ant a mage against a mage, this is not a warrior against a warrior, this is an assassin against a squishy, you can’t compare that interaction with mage vs mage.


#74

We can take celeste and varya as an example. Celeste with her previous range was easily to bully Varya making sure she never got to her lategame but now celeste can still bully her early but a varya playing safe can make a comeback.
We can even take Idris who is very viable assassin who can quite easily kill squishes but at the same time there’s counterplay to him. Reza on the other hand you can’t counterplay and he’s level 2 powerspike is too oppressive. He can pretty much outplay warriors aswell


#75

Bullying =/= countering. She also couldt bully her at level 8. Nothing in terms of range has changed prior to lvl 8. The difference with idris is that idris is a late game hero while reza is a mid game hero, so of course he will bully squishy heroes in early - mid.


#76

Celeste is a counter to varya but the only difference the celeste has to be good and the varya can play safe. There’s still a 0.5 range reduction even at level 8 -_-
I am talking about Idris lategame. There’s still counterplay to him even lategame. He can’t just walk up to you and kill you unlike what Reza does earlygame. Reza can pretty much 1v1 squishes throughout the game and way too good earlygame.


#77

So you are basically asking for an assassing to not be able to kill range carries, great.


#78

facepalm
Just because he’s an assassin doens’t mean he should be able braisnlessly walk upto you and kill you which is what Reza does at level 2. Even Anka who’s goddamn OP requires more work


#79

The 0.5 range reduction was at level 8.
Squishy heroes tend to be weak early game, reason why reza destroys them: he hard counters them + he is strong when they are weak. That’s double counter.
It balances that late game, his damage falls hard and is only left with mobility.


#80

No, you are all complaining about how Reza can win tha lane by his own, you are trying to beat and assassin with a range carry! Hello?? when someone gets and assassin people used to play bruisers to counter him, but not now, you are expecting range carries to be able to beat anyone at anypoint in the game no matter if that hero counters you or not.