Reworking older/problematic heroes

Vainglory Discussion Heroes, Builds, & Items
1

There are a lot of heroes that are either old and/or problematic.
Let’s fix that.
Here are (mostly) my ideas. Some are from friends on discord.

Kinetic

Passive base damage reduced
A reduced base damage, increased WP Ratio
B Overdrive removed
B - > A stun unlocked at 200 CP
C WP Ratio increased

CP Kinetic is actually very well designed. She does lots of damage, makes use of the stacking passive in a much more interesting way than WP Kinetic and has ACTUAL WEAKNESSES. These changes are mainly to push the bruiser Kinetic build out of style and to encourage a WP Kinetic to actually use their ult for once.

Grumpjaw

Passively deals bonus WP damage on AA (2.5% + 0.5% x missing living armour stacks). Heal for 100% of this damage.
A range increased, cast time increased
B rework: Grumpjaw slams his arms in an area in front of him. This has a small delay and displays an area indicator. If in the center, this ability stuns and slows. If hit by the outside, this ability does 50% damage and only slows. Slow strength and duration scales off WP. Stun duration scales off CP.

When I think of Grumpjaw, what I think is of a character that uses their massive size in their abilities. His A and C made good use of this, and make you feel like a dump truck. Unfortunately, his B is more… pathetic looking? Plus, it’s honestly not very good, and you’re going to get kited late game. This kit allows Grump to more effectively set up for teamfights. Sure, he’s still going to get kited, but as long as he’s hitting a bruiser or captain he can keep himself healthy. WP is more focused on catching out a team of enemies and duelling bruisers with some attackspeed items, where CP is about bursting and locking down a single target with the ultimate.

Kestrel

A 110% WP Damage ratio overdrive removed
Increased armour pen on Overdrive (20%)
B Stun is unlocked upon 200 CP. Replaced by a heavy slow until then. Base damage and CP Ratio increased.
C WP Ratio increased

WP Kestrel is problematic. She has very few counters (Fort. uhhhhhh… Varya?), and whenever she’s in meta, everyone hates it (except Kestrel players, of course.). She’s meant to be a bruiser counter who destroys armoured targets who she can kite, but she can also deal a staggering amount of damage to other ranged characters that she outranges (Vox big OOF). Her trap is also fantastic for keeping long range threats (what SHOULD be countering her) from feeling safe, even when she’s WP, especially with their general lack of mobility. Although she isn’t particularly meta currently, these changes are IMO much healthier.
Also her WP Snipes are pretty meh so I bumped it up.

Joule

Reduced base armour and shield at level 12
A ranks increase armour/shield on passive
A CD reduced
C charges up based on damage dealt and taken (calculated without passive), deals bonus true damage based on damage dealt

Joule is an interesting one. The idea of this is to make her C less of a dead ability for WP while not reworking anything for her CP path. The idea is to give WP more of a focus on utilising her big, bulky passive and using her ultimate as a finisher.
based on damage taken (calculated without passive) means that charge is calculated as if the passive didn’t have any effect, but the damage actually taken is reduced by her passive.

Ringo

A increases the damage Ringo deals to slowed target for a short duration.
B movespeed increased, but is removed when slowed for over 50%.
C base damage reduced, CP Ratio increased, WP execute ratio added. Channeling time increased.

Ringo is the RANGED DUELIST. He should be able to approach, deal a bunch of damage and finish you off if you step out of line when you’re ranged, but he should be countered by melee characters who can touch his beautiful backside. The C execute ratio exists as a way of making it less of a dead ability, where Ringo can finish off opponents who have escaped his grasp more effectively, and perhaps even through a vanguard.

Give me your opinions and feedback down below.

2

100% lifesteal? B R O K E N. He already deals lots of damage doesn’t need more damage and lifesteal? No, he is tanky enough.

The problem with CP kestrel is how safe she is while poking thanks to her B, anyone that steps inside it dies. She needs no buff at all in her damage, that ability is already toxic enough, in general invisibilities aren’t healthy for the game.

Her snipes deal +800 damage, I think that’s good enough giving that she build WP, not CP.

He ult doesn’t need buffs, what WP joule needs is to be able to hit her B.

Funny when almost every single slow in the game is 50% or more. He is a,ready vulnerable to melee heroes, what needs a change is his passive, which is shit.

3

I personally think all these heroes you mentioned are completely balanced. I do think someone like Reim and Saw might need reworks so they are not so situational.

3 Likes
4

LOL if SEMC took the time to fix Reim’s bug he would be actually OP. He does so much damage and if you can land a good amount of your Spires than it takes 3 people to bring you down, or 2 ranged. It’s just the AA bug that is making him harder to use. SAW’s kit is not fit for a MOBA at all. A hero who basically becomes a turret and has the squishiness of a carry with the weakness of a relatively cheap item.

5

Kinetic
CP Kinetic is well designed and should remain the way she is right now. In team fights she’s painful to deal with but in lane she can get harassed easily, which is fair enough. Go big or go home. For WP I feel like a range nerf will tone her down. It’s kinda weird that she has a stacking ability but then an AA range that is similar. It’s like SEMC made her to freely bully someone. Having lower range would mean she has to move in closer to put those stacks to good use. Now that’s just my thoughts. If you reduce her passive base damage, then that means there is no reason to even stack. The damage is minimal. Giving her an increased WP ratio and lowering her base damage means people should buy raw WP, but they’re already doing that. The stun thing I like. The Ult is there to finish people who are too far away, no reason to lose all her stacks if there is someone else to hit. I feel like you buffed her more than you nerfed her.

Grumpjaw
He works nicely and for that entire Kinetic thing I wrote up I just realized, why doesn’t anyone buy SM BP on Grump and Krul. I believe their lifesteal stacks. Now onto your changes. His perk is good already. His A is good, anymore range and he’s gonna end up being targeted because his teammates are too far away. I like the B idea but his B even though not being a flashy ability is still good on him as it increases his attack speed and gives him some other stuff. It also has a CP ratio which means SC AS TB Grump not dead 100%. The changes also gives him too much teamfight presence for a hero that is supposed to be more effective early game. There is a reason why Teleport Boots is a second buy.

Kestrel
She’s basically an extreme version of Vox. Always meta if you know how to play her too well. As you talked about how little counters she has, when she has counters, her counters basically shut her down if people know how to play them. I don’t think WP Kestrel is the problem btw, I’m pretty sure its CP because she can go invisible for a long time and do a lot of damage. And her position is, use all peel effectively and keep on shooting arrows. A good Vox is gonna be able to kill her easily as long as he has the same gold as her after all. Kestrel’s main damage source is her arrows. In 5s she shouldn’t even be teamfighting, as she is better at taking objectives she should just split push bot. Her WP snipes are meh because they are for finishing off.

Joule
I like the idea but its just adding complexity when she doesn’t need it. Her WP side just needs a new Ulti. Something that makes it easier for her to lockdown enemies and kill them. She’s too easy to run away from and her jump provides nothing for her because it does no initial damage.

Ringo
I feel as if he just needs the CP effect on his Ult where 100% of the shield is removed from the enemy onto his WP side instead, which means he can Ult up first and begin blowing people up. Making it a flank ability instead where Ringo needs to worry about his initial positioning because he is squishy. And btw no matter what slow it is, it cancels out speed boosts which means a red buff AA can stop someone’s JB.

2 Likes
6

True. Reim is really op you just gotta land those A.

7

By the way about grumpjaws b. Dude grumpjaws b is fine to be honest. His perk is about trying to keep the armor from going away so obviously the b would make sense to compliment his perk

8

remove ringo ult’s “noob mark” on target…
why it exist?
and increase it’s travel speed

ringo ult is pretty useless. it should be ultimate…

9

It’s less about balance for me and most about characters with somewhat dead abilities. If you just put these things in as it is Joule would probably end up being super strong because all I gave her a somewhat useful ultimate.[quote=“Guest_78, post:2, topic:4681”]
100% lifesteal? B R O K E N. He already deals lots of damage doesn’t need more damage and lifesteal? No, he is tanky enough.
[/quote]
Grumpjaw is a character that I personally find melts in teamfights in the worst way possible. Her goes in used his A and B and then if the enemy team isn’t dead he’s a sitting duck who generally is forced to AA a tank to keep his stacks up. My idea is to emphasise that playstyle with his new B and make him better at it, where he can engage with his A B, use his C when he needs to and survives by fighting.

Alpha A at rank 1
Baron A
Blackfeather B (xd)
Gwen A before WP scaling
Kinetic B → A at rank 4
Krul passive
Lorelai B before health scaling
Lyra B
Malene C Light empower at rank 2
Ringo A at rank 4
Rona A
SAW B
Silvernail A at rank 4
Vox B

The game doesn’t have any numbers for Ardan A and Skaarf B but we can assume that Ardan A is less than 50% and Skaarf B is more.

Shiversteel is 40%
Frostburn is 30%

I might be a nerd for pointing all this out but I don’t just spout out random numbers.

10

I honestly think the reim bug was intentional.

Back when 3v3 was the main game piece, i used to play both paths on reim in the lane (I used to destroy lane BF :^)).

And the amount of fortified health i managed to gain from the minions back then was way higher than what you get currently. You barely get any health from minion hits so i think it was intentional so reim couldn’t 1v3 so easily.

But thats my two cents.

Edit: Just think about it. If Niv said he would look into it, but then Reim gets a buff two his B despite (i assume) Niv probably asking around in the Hq. Doesnt quite add up.

Why a buff to a hero that has a known bug to his kit and not fix it instead of a buff when Reim is already strong if his perk worked correctly ???

11

Because everything is delayed at SEMC. If you say something two weeks before a patch is coming out its too late. If you say something at the beginning of a patch then thats worth something. Niv was looking into it at a really late time because the problem finally got some notice at a late time, despite it being there for a long long time.

12

Ig we will see next update

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13

Kinetic definitely needs less range with 6.4 going to 6.2. Girl SAW is annoying.
Grumpjaw is fine. He is a bursty tank.
Kestrel balances on a razor’s edge. I would give her mist a longer duration stun on overdrive from 0.8 to 1 sec.
Joule needs several small things. She used to be the fastest base speed hero but that changed with new heroes coming out at 3.5. I would raise her speed from 3.5 to 3.6. Her lvl 12 armor/shield is 50, unlike most other melees who get 60. I would fix that. I would raise her base AA speed at lvl 12 from 113.2 to 122. I would raise the CP scaling on her rocket leap from 170% to 190%. Lastly, I would add 80% WP scaling to her Ult.
Ringo is fine.

14

Having higher lifesteal than even krul? No thanks.

I don’t care about ranks, take the overdrive and the scaling, be realistic with what it’s played. Most abilities that slow, when maxed would stop his speed, which is a heavy nerf he doesn’t need. It’s a no no.

15

Grumpjaw: Literally just remove the tp boots strat that SEMC is ignoring kek

1 Like