People And Their Rank Expectations

Anyone who knows me knows how much I love playing cp SAW. So I go into a game and everybody’s like ooh the t6 with cp saw what a troll.

Funny part? I did the best in the game I was paired with a t7 and a t8 and did better than BOTH of them. The amount of silence during the match after the initial trash talking was deafening as I got kill streak after kill streak, and we only freaking lost because one guy was lagging/disconnecting and another guy refused, straight REFUSED to do anything but push his lane, nobody put vision on dragons, the usual crap that half the supposed higher tiers I see still do.

I hope Rogue seriously addresses the toxic attitudes that have prevailed in the community for so long because they are sooo frigging annoying it’s not even funny.

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I made anti-saw community in the old forum and it was against weapon saw because saw is toxic he is either very strong or very weak they can’t balance him , but I played with a lot of good cp saw players , one of them was jumping walls with the shank he was the best saw player I have ever seen , I don’t think cp saw a troll pick but is there a better pick of course other heroes can do better than him especially in 5v5 .

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CP saw is ok in 5vs5 into the right enemy team. WP saw is actually viable rn if played good, sadly not a lot of players picking him up do that (the good players who can play him decent will pick another hero instead for obv reason).

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Same for me when I go cp taka.

Idk, it’s so easy to counter him as a jugnler. In 5v5 he’s just super vulnerable to ganks. He did better in 3v3 where the captain was always nearby.

Another issue is that he’s not actually that good at split pushing compared to bruisers late game, and his teamfighting sucks. Imo if you plan on picking saw you also have to pick a jungler that has good lane pressure and super hard push bot. If you don’t secure top turret in 3m or less it’s a waste of a pick imo.

I wouldn’t say CP SAW is OK, I think he is rather weak and almost a troll pick. Although I have played CP SAW myself many times, after the last nerfs he received, he is no longer impactful in any situation, not against enemies who knows what a MOBA is.

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I am using ok and viable for a reason, imho it’s not a good pick except in a really specific teams and game plan.

I mean he clearly has his weaknesses but that’s no reason to trash talk, dodge, or throw. I guess what this is really about is playerbase attitudes. And I’m not trying to come off as innocent either; I can be a complete a-hole when I get triggered by people and I have no problem being so.

Take an earlier game I had as example: I had a 40 minute game earlier where we kept going back and forth with our ganks because the enemy was just that good with retreating and wave pressure and we had to do the same. I was cp saw and got nearly the first 7 kills of the game. We lost but I ended the game with a score of like 13/3/19. And we only lost because on our final push into enemy base two of our players lagged out and the enemy had time to respawn while one of them had time to try to backdoor.

Now the thing about cp saw is he actually doesn’t have the same movement restrictions as wp saw and most people don’t realize that. He’s poke, and predictable poke, but the trick is use his B range and power to max advantage early game to build up a gold lead and maybe get kills on enemies who don’t expect him to do that much damage from afar with just his B, and getting his obvious shanks off when you can with his A: they can’t outrun all of them. Once you get his C up it is an amazing finisher for fleeing enemies and an all around great poke. His big advantage is every hit he does does MASSIVE damage and since it’s all poke unless the enemy has a chance to dive you, you’re going to be screwing them with no real repercussions. Of course if they team up and target you you have problems but that’s where your team comes in, forcing them to engage while you spray down the lot of them with B and your team finishes them off: one B late game takes off nearly half the enemy health by itself if they get stuck in the whole thing, and one C missle does almost 700 dmg with splash and you reload quickly. Forget his shanks, they do over 1k dmg. The whole thing about cp saw is you’re never supposed to actually just sit there like wp saw; you dodge and juke, bounce in and out, run around like a maniac with A to dodge enemy attacks or roll out of dives, and use auto attacks or B to wave clear from afar. I still never build boots on him and I never have a problem. I really think it comes down to the player and how you play him, and most people don’t have the discipline and map awareness to play him well. Yes there are more convenient picks but stronger? Idk about that. He still out damages most heroes if you can just land his hits and get to a safe range between pokes, and his punish value is massive.

The thing is that 90% of the time if someone wants to troll - he picks saw. Nowdays it’s seen as trolling and gl explaining in chat it’s not. Especially when someone does not ask if he can pick saw, etc - just lock fast and didn’t even type.

From there, saw is not troll weak, actually I can think of worse botlaners vs current saw. He needs a constant support from the jungler tho and as a whole the team needs to close the game fast as otherwise saw falls off late game.

P.S. he is another hero designed for 3vs3 in mind. Balancing with numbers - ok, but this won’t fix other issues with his design. And we got a complains in 3vs3 too, but imho he worked there ok.

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His CP path has lower damage than a mage. His ult has a ton of cooldown for just Celeste’s A, so it’s nothing special. His B got a hughe damage nerf, and now it has a delay before it starts applying the damage and the slow, so there is enought window to avoid it without reciving a single hit. Finally his Roadie Run (A) got the speed boost reduced (by a lot), paired with more damage nerfs, so now a range carry has to get on melee to use that ability with not as much damage as it used to have and if the enemy just retreats, SAW won’t reach him, so is only useful to disengage if they dive you.

His overall damage got reduced by more than 500 base damage, with less CP ratios and more delays, so yes, i would say he is almost a troll pick.


That might be true to some degree but he still has massive damage compared to most mages over time. His damage is done in chunks while most mage damage is done over a longer period of time. A celeste A needs the initial hit and the explosion, while a saw A or C just needs the one hit to do comparable, if not slightly less damage. I agree with you on his B(?), there is a stupid delay on when he starts doing actual damage that allows you to walk out of it with maybe 100 worth of damage instead of like 200-300, however I don’t agree that it’s only a disengage tool, however, and agreeably, it is janky to use it as a poke because you practically have to use it from max range and hope you get 3-400 dmg out of it before the enemy escapes or it is wasted (late game numbers). I don’t agree with the fall off late game as I have done massive damage to enemies late game but then again I usually build SG, DE, and BM on him so that’s counting in the bump up from having both crystal items and after a few well placed ults giving me stacks.

I guess I just love his playstyle as I view him as a sniper-style hero that waits for the best moment to get maximum effect, and I love that in heroes, but that said, it’s still no excuse for players to dodge or throw or not help me simply because im cp saw, and BECAUSE im cp saw, it makes even less sense to not help him. He relies on stuns to get the most out of his B, relies on teamfights to hide in the back and spray and hope his jungler or a carry actually get the kill. He relies on supports to heal out the damage he gets from a rushed A. He might need help but he still does massive damage, even if it’s not as much as it used to be. I find him much more mobile with his C nowadays compared to the old ult and that’s why I don’t mind the tradeoff in damage but he still doesn’t need more damage. He’s like CP baron; meant to weaken enemies for others to get the kill, not kill by himself.

His roadie run (A) is only a disengage tool.

In my previous comment I said A has a delay, but I was referring to the supresión fire (B), I didn’t remember which skill was which, my mistake.

Although Celeste has to detonate the nova, SAW’s ult only has 300 + 150% CP each 15 seconds in a fixed range (you can use it at melee), whereas Celeste has in the second hit 340 + 175% CP in a bigger area, with lower cooldown and can use it anywhere inside her range. So objectively SAW has way lower damage compared to her, she outdamage him in burst and sustain.

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True. Agreed on roadie run being mainly disengage. It is also a kill secure when the enemy is close and low enough health. I do think it’s worth noting that he can fire his C much faster than Celeste back to back, and Celeste has that outdamage potential on the nova, meaning in the same time saw can fire about 2-3 ults, celeste is doing her first hit and her nova hit. So if you want to be truly comparative, you should take into account that saw is firing 2-3 ults in the same time that celeste is getting her primary A and her nova in, tripling his damage output in the same timeframe at the sacrifice of only being able to do it in a 3 shot burst before he has to wait for multiple shots to cool down.

Mathematically, that ends up being more dmg in the same timeframe if saw hits multiple shots. Not adding in cp ratio so celeste may do similar dmg. That’s why I say he might be outdamaged, but not by a lot.

By the way I knew you were talking about his B lol. I agree, it is a stupid delay, but I think it’s there for animation purposes.

To compare, in 2 seconds SAW will shot 2 outs, so it’s a 600 + 300% CP, Celeste is gonna use her A twice having 600 + 255% CP (But she only needs 1.8 seconds, not 2), so in the same time the damage output is higher Celeste’s than SAW’s with, again, more “freedom” (I don’t know which is the correct expression, sorry) in range.

About his B, he didn’t used to have it, after the nerfs, they changed it, so they not only nerfed all his stats but also the window to land his skills.

His A only has significant damage when it’s overdrived (it goes from 20 to 40% missing health ratio), but that’s not earlygame, and SAW is supposed to be an early bully, so having him scale in mid game or lategame is quite stupid.

Let’s put some numbers to compare them: the minimum multiple between both cooldowns is 18 seconds.

  • SAW fires the 5 charges of his ult in the first 8 seconds + one extra shot (each 15 seconds he gets another shot counting from the first shot — second 0), a total of 6 shots: this means 1800 + 900% CP damage

  • Celeste uses her A 1 time at the second 0 + one time each 1.8 seconds, a total of 11 As. Total damage: 6 uses of her first shot + 5 detonations = 3260 + 1355% CP

  • Difference between them: 1460 + 455% CP

Conclusión: SAW only outdamages Celeste in the very first seconds.

Still think they damage is even?

Well tbh I think the premise is wrong in the first place. saw doesn’t have much delay between his shots, definitely not the 1.8 delay that celeste has. That’s why I think he can pull off 2-3 ult shots in the same time celeste can fire 1 (I’m including the 1st shot and nova shot in 1). So in reality I see it as 900 dmg in 2 seconds compared to celeste’s approx 700 dmg between her initial hit and her nova hit, not including the cp ratio (i’m not in a position to look at exact numbers right now). Also as for freedom, that’s somewhat from perspective, as while celeste has to hit the initial shot and the nova shot, and has to ‘proc’ the nova shot, meaning she has to aim on the same spot, saw just has to aim at the enemy wherever they are to do consistent dmg, meaning if the enemy moves out of the helio range, celeste doesn’t get the nova bonus. I don’t see the freedom there except that she has way more shots. I will have to get back to you on the exact numbers as I’m on the road right now but considering these facts I can’t say that celeste outdamages saw definitively when it comes down to A vs C.

I do agree with you on his B however I don’t agree on his C. I don’t think being overdriven makes a huge difference with his C dmg because it only comes into play on missing health, which is to say I think his C still does significant dmg even if the enemy has full health as long as saw is cp. It won’t always k.o. them but I don’t think you can sniff at 1/4th the average carries health, which is about what it does even when not overdriven, sans fort health or barriers.

And I do think saw’s early to mid game dmg is when he’s at his most effective, because he does more damage output in a chunk than most heroes do over time, meaning if someone doesn’t hit him during his A or B, usually they come out way more hurt in a short amount of time than he does.

2 seconds between shots, 15 seconds cooldown per charge, so yes, my premise is right. You didn’t even bother to make sure your cooldowns were right?

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I’m almost positive it isn’t 2 seconds between shots
Maybe the numbers are off but I can almost guarantee saw can let off 3 shots in the same time celeste can do two A’s. By the standard I will admit that I could be wrong but in actual gameplay it has never seemed as slow as 2 seconds between shots. More like 1 and change at most. That’s a noticeable difference and saw shells definitely do not seem to fire as slow as celeste A’s

It’s a screenshot of the ingame numbers, I took it few seconds ago. It doesn’t matter how slow or fast do you feel they are, they have 2 seconds cooldown between shots, and that’s a fact.

I know. I’m just saying it genuinely doesn’t seem right by actual gameplay. Granted I could be wrong but never has it seemed to me that a celeste could get her nova off faster than I fired 2 shots in her and still had time for a 3rd. I could be wrong but I actually don’t think those numbers are exact.

They are exact: I tested them when they made the change in 4.2

Edit: apparently they changed it, I have tested now, it seems like they deleted that delay