Oldskool's hero ratings


I agree it was more fun and “fair” on top position at those patches. Right now it doesn’t really matter if u pick tank or dmg hero, it is bad and totally one sided to the point you can’t delay the turret drop till 2-4m into the game.

Btw when I speak about turrets, back in 3vs3 days we rarely dived as turret dmg was respectable, impact that is non existent in the 5vs5 turrets for most part of the game. Also the vain crystal drops super easy this patch and dunno why they removed a heavily marketed point of the mode prior to release - the dropping defences punch/vain armour with steps. Was cool concept and it worked good.


Turret damage in 5s is more lol In 3s captains can tank turret damage to destroy turrets even if you didn’t get an ACE.

I think the biggest problem is that the turret explosion doesn’t take minions to one shot health so if you are rolling a lane you just keep on rolling. In 3s the minions go down to one shot health ACE buffed or not. I think they messed up with the numbers when they buffed health on the minions lol.


Maybe in solo Q. If you are a premade team or partied with a good captain and utility jungle celeste is one of the best picks. Though CP vox can be stronger in certain match ups.

There is a reason celeste is a favorite for many of the top teams, and why she was played a decent amount during the world invitational which was on 3.9

edit: also, CP lyra is a fringe pick and best, and is not what i’d even consider meta.


I stopped playing for quite a while and now I am back.

Main problem with jungle when I left is that laners take the jungle camps and thus playing as a utility jungler that doesn’t need much gold to be relevent is the most efficient way to make up for it. Sadly it is still the case but with the changes they are trying to make it harder for heroes not meant to jungle to jungle. People don’t really understand that and keep trying to make it work by starving junglers or sharing the jungle with a utility hero so that it wont really matter if he doesnt get that much gold.

Personally I think jungle should be more unique and have a set of heroes that can jungle and be a damage threat. Making it more beneficial to starve the jungler isnt healthy for jungle mains that are forced to play as a supportive role. Yes carries deal more damage, but they shouldnt be the only ones that deal damage.

Most heroes shouldnt be able to jungle and get the same or better results than heroes that are made to jungle. Jungle camps should be harder to get and not sharable. Laners should respect the fact that junglers need to farm and that they would be effective. League of legends addresses this by having smite as a summoner spell and unless you have it you wont be able to buy jungle items and without jungle items it would be a nightmare to farm jungle camps.

I don’t know the best way to go about it regarding VG. The last changes of buffing camps and making them spawn at the same time minions reach lane is a good step. Making the laning phase be a damn laning phase is a good step because part of the problem is that you could leave your lane for ages and it wont really matter. Should they add summoner spells? I dont think it would really fit. Should they buff jungle camps and allow only specific heroes to buy jungle items? That wouldnt be ideal too since it would kill creativity and the jungle meta would become stale. What I think could work is if you set you are going to jungle in the lobby you should be able to buy jungle items. New jungle items with various passives and stats should be introduced. Obviously it would create some problems like more than one person could pick jungle as their role. This could be solved by not allowing more than one player to choose the same role, but some issues like players would fight over roles would come up due to not having a choose your role before you queue up feature due to the size of the playerbase and how split it is over more than one mode. Also if this gets implemented and carries still expect the junglers to give them last hits or share the experience with junglers lowering the amount of exp the junglers would get still would be a problem so solving it would be by making the lane give enough gold and exp thus making it not worth it leaving lane and taking jungle camps. Also I think they should get rid of gold sharing. It would affect captains but it could be solved the same I suggested for junglers but it should be via captain items not as a passive. Like you wont be able to buy the said item that would be built into a captain item unless you select captain as a role.

There are more points I would like to discuss and maybe this should be its own thread. What do you guys think?

Edit: I forgot how to mention how bruisers fit into all of this, since most of them considered junglers, and I also why I think this is the reason for the captain crisis we are seeing now. Roles shouldnt be strict but it should have some kind of identity. Not every hero should be playable in every lane and especially the jungle.


Ringo and Gwen are just overshadowed by the likes of Kinetic and Silvernail.


Gwen is still very strong (3° in lane), ringo just suffers from his kit.


And Saw is overshadowed by every other carry :slightly_smiling_face:


I think there’s a point about jungle changes that people have also missed recently:
Jungle is meant to be shared, but only the wp and cp buffs. CP buff is much better for your mid or top laner than your jungler at lvls 1-5. People seem to be sharing this with the midlane nowadays which is good. WP buff is best on the bottom laner at lvls 1-6. The jungler’s main goal is to get hp treant, gold oak, rotate to bears, then get barrier treant, then go help whichever laner is struggling to push back, that captain cant, or if laners are doing well, go get a quick gank on whatever lane has the weakest enemy, or invade enemy jungle. Only time you should be invading enemy jungle early is if you have help or if you’re a tanky hero.

Most junglers seem to think they should just rotate all jungles until they get key items, and it doesn’t work as well for team support. Not to mention there’s no point in invading the enemy jungle to snag all the buffs while your laners are losing push on turrets. It helps way more to help your laner push back than invade enemy jungles if they need it.

And on the subject: captains. They need to be rotating a lot more. You don’t babysit a lane or especially jungle if one of your laners is struggling just because a lane is open. You leave laners solo if the lane is clear for them and help the lanes that are being pushed, not go for an early turret gank. You gotta make sacrifices to stop pushes or help people.

AND another thing: WP heroes need to stop trying to get kills so early by themselves. The whole trick to effective early wp is letting your ranged heroes whittle them down before you jump in to grab the finishing blow, THEN once you get stronger you initiate the fights. I see so many players that don’t understand this and wanna skip the minions to go after early kills and it almost never works; a coordinated team sees your lone wp hero pushing way forward of the rest of the team and sets you up for a gank with help rushing in, and especially early, you’re not killing anyonr fast enough for map awareness to not kick in and people coming to help. These are just some of the things I see players doing consistently and it almost never ends well.

Not to mention soloing dragons while your team needs the help. You should only be soloing dragons while your team is winning a push and almost all the enemies are there or somewhere far off. And don’t get me started on pushing inner turrets while your team is having a full 5v4 teamfight somewhere else. Solo lane pushes are so cancerous to most games I would put a hypothetical ban on them. You should almost always have a buddy, preferably one ranged and one melee, or melee and captain, when pushing past the first turret, unless it’s mid lane. It is just about the only comp that makes sense. Mid lane can solo it with cam placement but bot and top need both cam placement and boots to solo inner turrets and I see way too many people trying to be super pro and rush in and worst of all; ignore pings that enemies are leaving one lane to come cut you off, or recalling.


This. I don’t play either Silvernail or Kinetic but I have had decent success with playing Gwen into these heroes. She isn’t as potato as everyone makes her out to be.

Like so:

But then you get games where your team is one giant spud:

Ringo on the other hand requires an enormous amount of skill and very good positioning to pull off.


From my experience Gwen is usually hit or miss. Sometimes they snowball really hard other times they aren’t a threat to anyone at all. Anyway I like playing against her because she can win or lose but she feels nice to play against. I mean even when snowballing she doesn’t feel oppressive, just strong. Though I barely see her right now.


CP SAW is somehow viable in top


Still not viable as other heros.


But more tan certain heroes too.


Yes, not meta, but viable



One of my buddies lives and dies by Sawpport. He actually has a plus 50 win rate with it.


I main top. I got really good at the role and climbed mostly solo to T10. But every patch it seems like they’re nerfing the role. Old Stormguard banner/ Stormcrown actually made farming and trading in a 1v2 actually bearable. Sure I was playing a tank, but at least I had relevance and some sort of impact if I played well.

They nerfed those items, nerfed utility items like Pulseweave, and so I was left looking for other heroes to play. This patch, idk what I’m supposed to play, idk what I’m supposed to do. I quit the role last patch and played mid instead. At least there I had impact. But I just want top lane to be good. I played a few games on 3.9 before I just decided to quit the game altogether until they fix top. Its unplayable and endlessly frustrating. No other MOBA has this issue. Why the support role more impactful than a laning role is beyond me.


The issue is that stormcrown farming tanks were not fun to have in lane, nothing exciting was prone to happen. This patch you are forced to build damage to clear waves which actually encourages high energy lanes.

WP Lance, WP Ardan, Reza, Malene and so on are all great top lanes right now.


Great top laners that can’t prevent the turret from falling in 3 mins :slight_smile:
The side lanes are truly high energy lanes, turrets falling down as if they were mere minions.


Top has really become a cp heavy lane to me, with necessary rotation by your jungler/capt in the early game. It’s not so much a tank it out lane as it is a long range gank lane. It benefits the team much more to get that top enemy turret taken asap & just let minion waves push to inner turret while you rotate to other lanes. It pains me to see wp in top lane and I get nervous with capt but they can do alright if the rest of the team is handling bot and mid well.


There are no high energy lanes. The laning phase does not exist. You get pushed in 1v2, lose a turret and hope to scrounge up enough farm to be relevant. There’s no smart trades, gank baiting, wave control, setting up solo kills, none of that. There’s no way to organically create a lead and get ahead. There’s no interesting matchups.

At least as a farming tank there were much more creative options to play and outplay the lane. But once losing a turret becomes more of a formality as opposed to a consequence for bad play, the game as a whole suffers.