Logic please? (P1)

You have a point but ultimately this is fantasy. :stuck_out_tongue:

Game balance and a relatively diverse roster are usually more important than the nuts and bolts of the “logic” behind a character’s design. I suspect it usually comes down to "Hey, I bet this kind of hero would be cool! XD "

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Just looking at this there’s something no ones touched on that you always do, ask for buffs on your mains which are baron and saw. This post is a please buff my mains post, not logic

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Where is my support I NEED MORE SAWWWPORT!

Nah Adagio would be top tier broken and SEMC would not be able to nerf him since he is a demigod xd

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does that mean that skaarf gets a free revive every 1000 years? and that he becomes bigger and older the closer he is to 1000 years? SEMC PLS

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Don’t forget Tony gets nerfd to hell and is tiny, he can’t even hit the turret without a boost

But with his skill set the punch would stun everyone for each hit and his uppercut will throw things off the map. Wait new buff idea for Tony boys

Tbh I want to turn SAW into a tank, reduce his base damage significantly and increase his durability and utility

Actually I hope him to grow into a Blackclaw after 500-1000 CS.

can he eat all the heroes, instakilling them?

A skillset change at 500-1000 CS would do (*giggling)

You’ve never heard of SAWport? He does well as a Captain actually if you know what you’re doing.

All that aside, I don’t think keeping “realistic” parts of the weapons and working the heroes around that is a good idea at all. I’d much rather the heroes be built around their lore, their kit, their purpose. If saw didn’t ‘spin up’ he’d be OP. If you changed that and lowered the damage on his Shank, he wouldn’t be SAW anymore, he’d be something else and that’s not the point of the game. Not to mention, his other skins DO have minigun style rotating barrels.

Yeah, Baron’s got the lowest base WP but that’s because his basic attacks do splash damage… if you increased his base WP he’d be OP (this was actually true in the past). And if you take away the rocket launcher, or make it only do single target damage to compensate, then he isn’t Baron, he’s something else, and again, not the point of the game to work around real or fictional weapons as the sole basis in how the hero’s features and characteristics work. (Except maybe Glaive? I think he was a weapon first and a hero attached to it later, lol).

Oh, and wouldn’t the true ‘logic’ here be to NOT be too logical when making a game such as this and trying to balance and still be fun and fantastical while somewhat rooted in things we understand? :smiley:

But I do understand the sentiment! :smiley:

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If this is the real VideoVillain, then I’m talkin’.
First of all is my boi. He won’t be OP if he doesn’t have to Spin Up. He’ll have slower attack speed compared to Spin Up SAW which means your overall DPS is reduced. Your base WP were going to be reduced to further lower his DPS if I was gonna do the changes. Another solution is to change his base skin model that his default KAC ChainSAW has 3 barrels like his skin. And plz, what were you guys thinking when balancing SAW? Out of the 4 categories making snipers good which are Damage (DPSec or DPShot), Range, Mobility and Defense, SAW only has the damage. Nearly nothing for other categories. I’m sure that half of the devs hate SAW and have a SAW experience of just 1h compared to my 8 months experience (Summer 2016-Spring/Summer 2017 when I switched to main Baron, after all, I’m a heavy weapon guy, hence my avatar). He in his core is a split pusher and intended to be a 1v1 king of all snipers but he can’t even hold his ground up in the lane.
Here are my proposed changes IF you redo his skin to truely fit a machine gun(and btw, some of these changes are to support SAWport and to remove SAW from the lane):
*Role: Jungler/Support.

*Stats:

-HP is increased from 683 (+~122 HP per level) to 705 HP (+145 HP per level).

-Base Armor and Shield is increased from 20-50 to 20-60.

-Weapon is reduced from 50 (+5 WP per level) to 45 (+5 WP per level).

-Base attack speed is increased from 100%-111% to 200%.

-Base movement speed is reduced from 3.1 m/s to 2.9 m/s.

*New Perk: Spray and Pray: The damage of each basic attack is dealt in 10 small continuous ticks with each tick dealing 10% of the damage of his basic attack. (Visual: each of SAW’s basic attack will be a burst of 10 bullets). Crits will have a 20% chance of slowing the target for 5% for 1s.

*B: Suppressing Fire:

-Now after using this ability, his attack speed will be increased and his basic attacks will be empowered for a period of time, making them deal additional CP damage but will also reduce his movement speed.

-Instead of slowing enemies caught in its AOE, it will aplly Suppressed status to his enemies. Only suppresses enemies within its AOE. Enemies leaving the AOE will lose the Suppressed status immediately.

-Suppressed status: all directional skills are silenced.

-Upon acquiring 1500 additional HP, the Suppressed status will linger even the enemies have stepped out of its AOE and its duration is increased by 25% and the empowered basic attacks will also deal additional true damage based on 2.5% of the objectives’(not heroes’) missing health.

+Cooldown is increased from 15s to 20s/18.75s/17.5s/16.25s/15s.

+Damage per second is reduced from 120/170/220/270/370 +220% CP to 100/150/200/250/300 +150% CP.

+Buff duration: 3s/3.5s/4s/4.5s/5s.

+Basic attacks’ CP damage: 5/10/15/20/25 + 85% CP.

+Attack speed increase: 20%/25%/30%/35%/40%.

+Movement speed reduction: 0.2 m/s / 0.15 m/s / 0.1 m/s / 0.05 m/s / 0 m/s.

+Slow: 0% +10% CP.

*Ult: Mad Cannon:

-Now SAW only loads in 1 shell and fires immediately at the target, dealing an empowered basic attack with CP damage in an AOE and additional CP damage based on a % of the target’s missing health.

-CP will also increase the range of this ability up to a maximum of 10m at 200 CP.

-Reset basic-attack cooldown.

+Energy cost: 60/70/80.

+Cooldown: 7s/6s/5s.

+Range: 8m +5% CP.

+Basic attack damage: 115%/120%/125%.

+CP damage: 20/40/60 +125% CP.

+Additional CP damage based on the % of the target’s missing HP: 12.5%/15%/20%.

For Baron, my changes are:
*Stats:

-HP is increased from 679 (+125 HP per level) to 680 (+130 HP per level).

-Armor and Shield is increased from 20-50 to 20-70

-Movement speed is reduced from 2.9 m/s to 2.6 m/s.

-Attack range is increased from 5.4m to 6.4m.

-Attack speed is reduced from 100%-111% to 100%

*Perk: Rocket Launcher:

-WP ratio is increased from 130% to 140%.

*Ult: Ion Cannon

-Cooldown is increased from 80s/65s/50s to 150s/135s/120s

-Bonus attack range is reduced from 1m/1.5m/2m to 0m/0.5m/1m
-Base damage is increased from 450/600/900 CP damage +225% CP +120% CP to 10000 true damage.

-Deals 10% damage to objectives.

-Delay is increased from 3s to 4.5s

-Now the damage will be negated completely if you have a health barrier or fortified health active. (To avoid Baron one-shotting turrets).

-The first ult will be removed completely if you somehow get to cast another ult.
-Gwen: Her Boomstick basic attacks will deal their damage in a 30° cone.

-Skye:
*Target Lock:

-Each of her basic attack will be a 3-round burst, dealing 37.5% WP damage each small attack in an AOE.
.

you see this is when i stopped taking your post seriously.

imagine echo baron, you can globally DELETE people TWICE.

“o but you dont take dmg if you have fh/a barrier!”
this makes rona, ozo, reim, tony, (and some others w/ fh i probs missed) a counter.
that’s good right, people can counter the ult, and aegis can work to counter it! except you have a small timeframe to pop an aegis/cruci, and that makes low skilled players just doomed to baron, and even if you block the first one, echo it! EZ! with mediocre prediction skills, deleting enemies from the fountain will be doable.

now to the rest of your suggestions

sweet lord you’re thinking of removing him from the lane yet giving him such a high amount of batkspd?? couple this with the fact that you want crits to slow, you can just build to 100% crit and be a lean mean slowing machine. even if the speed is lower than a fully spun SAW currently, the slows are huge, and now that dmg is in ticks, you just counter catherine’s bubble (sad)

baron

i’m not sure bc i can’t access vg rn (phone bork), but isn’t this tank stats??

this is just wrong. at lvl 12, wp baron will be at 8.4 range AND have an instakill ult every other minute.

skye

so… you want her to be a mobile baron without the go die ult?

it’s funny how you think the baron and saw changes are worse than your proposed changes, not to mention asking the former bugs guy (i think thats what videovillain did, sry if im wrong love u)
what he was doing with the nerfs lmao, then saying saw has only dmg (which is false, he has the 2nd highest base range iirc, unless they changed that then ignore this bc im wrong sry.)

Oh crap forgot to reduce the final range for Baron at level 12. I intend to cut 1m from the bonus attack range of his ult and give it directly to his base attack range.
For SAW, you have a metric crap ton of mages that can kill you. Celeste: Core Collapse-Helio+Team Focus, Skaarf: 1 Spitfire-Goop-Spitfire+Team Focus.
Tbh SAW gets focused really fast and can get obliterated in a blink of the eye
And the “Go to hell ult” for Baron, you’ll have to lead 50% as far as you will normally. The delay is increased from 3s to 4.5s and i just changed it that you can use only 1 ult at a time.

Well it is quite obvious you put a lot of thought into your ideas and they aren’t bad!

So SAW gets a major attack speed increase, but his basics are now done 10% per tick while attacking and how often is each tick? I’m not sure I understand that completely with how it works regarding the attack speed and the ticks. What about his shank? A SAW is not a SAW unless he has his SAW Shank redemption! Also, regarding your original post about shank not as damaging as an ion canon; yes the canon would basically wipe you off the face of the planet, but a knife in the heart is no less deadly or sudden, so I think it’s damage makes sense.

As for Baron, I could see an ult like that becoming toxic even with the long amount of time you have to escape it, but it could be pretty cool. But his extended range AND extra WP would be too OP already given what we’ve seen in the past form WP Baron when he had only increase base WP.

Gwen doesn’t need more cone damage, and I don’t think her revolver shot is buckshot, just looks like a slug with wadding.

Skye doesn’t need explosive rounds, even though her guns could handle it, just assume they are already armor piercing rounds :smiley:

And FYI, I am the real VideoVillain

Not an increase at all but a decrease. Max ẠtkSpd is reduced from 316%-327% to just 200%-240%. And the ticks. Simple. Just imagine Skye’s Forward Barrage but as a single-target basic attack. I did this since he fires really fast but his in-game ROF is very slow compared to his real life ROF (which is 120-144 RPM to the real life 550-600 RPM) so that it will look like he fires really fast.
For Baron, I just edited it. Max range is still 7.4m. And the WP increase. WP Baron is potato early game and since you folks have reduced his base WP, he has a hard time laning early game and I just want to increase the damage of each shot to make it more impactful to compensate for the fact that he is the slowest shooting sniper in the game.

Mods can you make him have a 1 post a week limit. His threads are all the same and often ridiculous.

Also everyone keep saying Adagio is a god yet he hasn’t done anything to prove it. Just saying he ain’t as strong as you guys probably think.

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These logic conversations are really not that great imo. Others have already said why.

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