Listen to us for once! SEMC! I want answers to why the game is dying!

Vainglory Discussion UI & Overall Environment
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There is something that’s making VG a market failure. The dev either don’t knows about it or they do but then don’t do nothing at all.

I’ve been playing, on average 3 matches of 5v5 per day. And I have not seen any players without the “5v5 founder” badge. Which means, since update 3.0, there has not been many players coming to VG, and not many veterans who had came back neither. I’m quite worried.

Here are some reasons to why the game feel lack-lustered or unenjoyable:

  1. The unorganized, messy, unprofessional Home-Screen UI
    The Hero Selection and the Market are truly a messed up place, filled with Ads, ads, ads, and a who lot of windows to jump through to get to your destination. Who came up with this crap? This is just ironic, that SEMC advertises with a lot of ads, trying to cash-grab, but the players just doesn’t really care, instead, they are even annoyed.

You’ve gotta lose big, before you can win big. Get rid of all these Chests and Hero Talents Chest BS. I want to have the events and announcement back on the Homescreen (in slider form).

  1. The Hero Balancing
    Only 50% of Heroes in VG is considered “playable”-and 100% of those 50% are overpowered heroes (Celeste, Baron, Glaive,…). Another 40% extremely underpowered or the original designs of these heroes don’t fit into the the 5v5 playstyle (Reim, Lyra, SAW,…). The other 10% is unplayable and is never seen in any match (Lorelai, Phinn, Adagio,…).

The Meta only focus on these INSANE damage dealers that can kill in 2 seconds, while poke heroes or heroes who need more time than that- would FAIL (Reim, Ringo, Skaarf, SAW,…). It is extremely frustrating for a whole month, to be forced using this “pick the OP heroes to win” strategy. It will be even more frustrating to see SEMC release these heroes who are all OP and don’t fix them for the a month (Melane, Tony,…).

  1. The “buttery-smooth” experience.
    Where? Where is it? I’ve never seen such thing…

  2. The Snowballing.
    This is an extreme case, snowball in 3v3 was bad, then came the removal of the Minion Miner (R.I.P my babe), but now in 5v5, Ghost Wing and Blackclaw (which spawn strangely early on) really messes with the balancing of the game. If two level 6-7 heroes can take an objective that grant teamwide Regen, Gold, Barrier and Structure Damage at the 6th minute…something’s wrong. Not to mention how easy it is for the stronger team to invade Jungle and take the CP/WP Treants that make them even stronger.

In 5v5, right now, you have to win the early/mid game, because there is no late-game anymore. If you are the first to get 4 kills in the first 5 minutes, 90% you’ll win the match. For the weaker team, you cannot wait for the whole team to reach level 12 like in 3v3. You’ll stay under-leveled and under farm until the 15-19 minutes; which will mark your defeat anyways because the snowballing is that fast.

  1. Conclusion
    There is a much to be fixed to be honest. However, since SEMC keep drawing out new ideas and never get anything completed or done, more things will be born broken, while nothing will be fixed. Voice-chat? That should’ve came out in 2014. The UI? Shouldn’t have changed in the first place. Joy-stick control? Should have NEVER been a focus. Rank rewards? Skin system overhaul? Sunlight? Those should’ve either been perfected a few years ago, or should’ve never be a thing in the first place.

I feel like there are only about 3 people in the dev team, an artist, a coder, and a manager, that’s how underwhelming the SEMC team is: ideas are half-baked, designs are getting less and less original/unique/ or in themed… I personally, am not surprised with the fact that the game is dying, I’m shocked by how VG have got this far.

When people tells you that they are “deleting the game”, please don’t say “just leave, it doesn’t affect us anyways”; because if one person who is vocal enough to complain, that means they still care about the game. Not every player is gonna post a threat about it, they’ll just leave. And that have happened with half of the player base already, has it?

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Adagio and Lyra don’t fit? Don’t work? Lol…

The balance is the best of all mobile mobas…

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thats what the OPTIONAL joy stick controls hope to achieve. Touch has a high skill curve and its hard for new players to get into it because of that. So with joystick we can gain a more main casual audience and get more players.

The UI is being changed but as for the ads its more like promotions for deals so that they can earn money to continue making the game we enjoy and want to see grow.

Hero balancing is a issue and in part it has to do with items and energy consumption. 40 energy for that much zoning and damage is nuts and with clockwork its really hard to engage with celeste. I think adding in new defensive items could help with this issue. Like we have item that gives energy why not have defensive item that takes a enemies energy? maybe.

The game does run pretty well and if you lag it tends to be your own devices issue or internet. Sometimes its just a server lag here and there. With a 2 year old android device(which android tends to be worse then iOS at gaming.) I come across issues here and there.

Yes the 5v5 map needs to encourage high risk high reward for snowballing like 3v3 does. Some kind of protector would be nice but I think snowballing comes down to rotation and keeping a eye on those rotations is pretty important.

Vg has really high standards and is by far the best looking, best balanced moba on the market. They try to test waters for a balance rather then nerving a hero to the ground like they used to. give them some times and just play casuals if it gets really bad for you.

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…of deals? i think that’s fair bc the featured part and the top are the only ones with “ads”

GLAIVE OP?? no. maybe before they upped his cooldown sure but now? nooo.

LYRA UNDERPOWERED??? shes literally getting a nerf bc she bursts stupid.

uh? skaarf and ringo are gud, skaarf definitely in the top tier (after op tier) midlaners.

you wanted new players. this is how semc attracts them.

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I find her better as a support for Lyra tho her cp branch is a little strong, her, ardan, and Cath with the other ones needing a high skill cap to fully use.

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So, first things first… this isn’t an official forum, it’s community-run. There are devs here, reading, but they have no obligation to, and can totally ignore this place if they want. This place exists for people to talk about the game with each other, first and foremost, not to air grievances directly to SEMC. Because of that, you should do your best to make sure your feedback is fair and actually helpful, just in case they do read it. A big part of that is backing up your claims so what you say is truthful and thus, useful. Hero balance, for instance… I’m seeing Lorelai and Lyra quite a lot around T8/9, and I don’t think many people consider Glaive or Baron overpowered at all. Also, I think you’re exaggerating the number of pop-ups in the app right now (it’s been toned back a lot). If your criticism isn’t accurate, then it’s easy to ignore, and makes your post seem like a rant, even when there are legitimate ideas in it.

I appreciate that you have negative feelings about the game, but I think a big part of that is seeing what you want to see. Also, and this is a big also, the new patch is set to drop, like, hella soon, which includes both balance and UI changes. It’s a work in progress. Your complaint isn’t that timely, so see what the changes are, think about them, and see if your complaint is still true.

Obviously, there are things they can improve, and choices they could make to do things differently, but if you want to call them out for it, you have to back it up with fair and researched criticism.

I would recommend you spend some more time on the forum. Ask about strategy and using the different heroes. This is a place for finding and sharing useful info, and the more people do it, the better this place will be. :vgcheersx2:

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How do you quote?

there are so many things wrong with this thread…

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Ok let me ask you this what game mode are you playing and what is your rank

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That’s wild, I see one almost every match I play.

Though the landing UI isn’t necessarily the prettiest, can you describe how it’s unorganized? Honestly it’s better organized than it was before, and although the marketplace is cluttered, it’s not exactly hard to navigate.

Where’s the irony?

Yes! Totally agree with you there. Some form of updates rooted directly in our home screen would be a welcome addition.

Okay, what exactly are you saying, here? I think this is borderline salt-mine. I don’t know what mode you’re playing, or how you play, but in the right hands almost every hero has always been somewhat viable, save for a handful of patches where nerfs were a bit much. This hasn’t exactly been the case in a while. If you’re having trouble taking out a Celeste, I think you need to reconsider how you approach her.

Very surprised you haven’t seen Adagio, or Lorelai, and consider them unplayable. They’re most certainly playable (again, in the right hands) and are quite powerful if used correctly. Phinn unfortunately isn’t a popular choice atm due to his speed.

Nobody is forcing you to use anything. You’re falling for a meme.

Almost every new hero that’s ever come out has been OP in some form. Malene may be strong but she isn’t exactly OP, again, it takes a little knowledge to approach them correctly. There’s an unnecessary stigma attached to new heroes and everyone calling them OP from the get-go just feeds into that.

The reponse network-side has been iffy recently, but if you’re to say you’ve “never seen such a thing”, you’ve either not been playing Vainglory for very long, or you’ve been playing on a meager device.

Sans maybe a few hiccups here or there, the game looks and runs astonishingly well for a mobile game.

Quoting this only but in reference to the entirety of #4, how is something wrong here? The game is not meant to last a very long time. Keep in mind you’re playing a mobile game, the demand for matches to be quick is greater. If my teammates are smart and strong enough to take objectives that early, hats off to them. But I would assume that my teammates should know how and when to counter my opponents attempting the same thing. That’s not an issue with the way the game is set up.

I would love to know what you’re playing. Is this casual, ranked? If ranked, what rank?

I dunno, man. Despite your post being coherent for the most part, it honestly sounds like you’re having a bad time with the game and taking it as a personal offence. Maybe you’re terrible at Vainglory and you’ve decided that’s the fault of SEMC, or maybe you do truly dislike everything SEMC has done as of late and you’re emotionally compromised due to it.

You make a few interesting points about what’s wrong with VG, or what appears broken, but leave little to giving ideas towards solutions, or genuine critiques. The whole post just reads as if you’re stomping your feet and hoping SEMC will coddle in response.

I think the most odd thing I find is that, after I took a hiatus from playing Vainglory, when I returned things actually felt better. Matchmaker can be iffy at times, but otherwise I feel the solidity of the craftsmanship under my fingers. It’s interesting to read much of your experience with the game as, in a lot of instances, personally I’ve had an opposite experience.

Oft when I read posts like this, I wish I could do or say something to show you a bit more of the light. I wish there was a way I could pass on some of my experience with Vainglory that isn’t so trapped in the maw. I’d love to show you where our experiences differed, first hand.

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I dunno where you’ve been, I see them often enough. We’re only 2 updates since 3.0, d’you really expect the whole game to be filled with new players all the time?

They’re addressing that. Check Kristian Segerstrale’s twitter.

Dude, Baron and Glaive are far from OP. Glaive is weak if anything, and Baron isn’t that good either. Celeste is another matter. There will always be balance issues, you can never make it perfect.

Place some vision and you’re fine. If you know you can’t fight them, steal their jungle while they’re stealing yours.

You’re literally telling them to improve things and then complaining about the things that have been improved…

What makes you think half the playerbase has left? Just because other people are sayin it?

Ok my conclusion. Yes, you addressed things here that SEMC need to work on. Most of it is already being worked on already tho (UI, Snowballing, Hero balances always) and half of what you said isn’t true. If you really wanna complain about hero balances, which is by no means necessary, at least do some research first. Glaive is Definitely not meta right now, whereas Lyra is, and to an extent also Adagio and Lorelai. Tony wasn’t too OP (altho I’ll admit Malene was). The only real point here is the “buttery smooth” point. Servers need improvements, and some bug fixes need done.

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Highlight the text you wanna quote (y’know as if to Copypaste it) and a “quote” option should appear.

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Baron and glaive op? lol, baron is completely out of the meta right now.

Lyra is the best roam, and you said she is weak, so the other roams are…? dead?

Thats a lie, Lorelai is being used quite a bit as a cp laner, adagio is also used, in fact quite a lot, as a semisupport laner.

Skaarf is top 3 in mid right now (said by the pros also), he is actually quite op.
In terms of balancing, this game is one of the best (if not the best)

There are not that many ads lol, it seems like we are playing a totally different game.

It is actually quite clean.

In the game, but seeing what you are saying it seems like you dont even play (baron op lol)

They are nerfing it.

Just rotate and steal their jungle.

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Thank you :smiley:

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Glaive is far from OP even right now. I’d say he is high tier in lane and jungle and I see him quite often, but he is just really strong. I would wait on calling Glaive op when the patch comes out. Baron is not op at all and in fact deserves buffs. Lyra and UP do not go well together except for that ONE patch when 5v5 first came out and her numbers got gutted. What tier in ranked are you by any chance? You have a different sense of op and up than most of the community here

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Not saying there’s no truth somewhere in all this, but some parts are so wrong and unnecessary negative. Balance is actually pretty good. About 80-85% of heroes are viable. Glaive and Baron are actually not even close to top meta. I checked my last 20 games. There wasn’t a single game Lyra wasn’t picked or banned. Lorelai is also one of the best roams. Adagio is definitely top 3 top laners. Balancing in 5v5 isn’t bad.

Another thing I don’t understand is your attitude towards changes. They’re adding rank rewards and you’re complaining as it should have been done earlier? So if they don’t do it wouldn’t you complain there isn’t rank rewards? Better late than never.

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Well, despite OP being full of half-truths and emotional opinions. He is a regular player and it does confirm that the rumor of “Vg is dieing” is more wide spread and being believed.

SEMC needs something big to counteract this. Something to put this rumor to rest. Some kind of Big partnership… I duno…

lol. I feel like this is a Soap Drama. where’s all the paid actors? Get some celebrity to endorse it. lol

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Ok I got a better understanding of you now. You’re playing mostly 5v5 rank at t8 and blitz with the equivalent of t7. Of course new players will be rare to see how many people can make it to 14 heroes and win enough rank matches to get to t8 in what 1 or 2 months. Also blitz rank won’t be high due to less talents and skill

His API stats

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last time i check, 2 days ago, this game still in top 100 appstore for free games

it’s not a sign of dying… surely

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Nothing big is needed though going to gdc in Moscow is pretty big. The best thing is communication (like they just did for leaderboards)

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How do you know the game is dying? From your experience of not seeing many people in 5v5 without the founding badge? From seeing your vet players not returning? What a great sample to base that the game is dying. It could be dying or it could be increasing but I sure don’t think you know that it actually is.

Why do people think being so negative and rude at times will all of a sudden make semc do what you want them to? You could have said all the improvements and feedback you wanted without having to say you think semc team consists of only 3 members. Its rude comments like this that are a factor that discourages people to look and respond to feedback.

I don’t think vg is perfect and that semc has made no mistake, they have quite a bit to improve but being rude isn’t necessary. Yes they’re adding things in late when they could’ve been done early but at least it’s now getting added. You want semc to save the community from leaving by doing things that will attract them, keep them, doing things that will make the game better, well now they are and your just shitting on them for taking so long.

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