One hit and the SH is actived, then he is vulnerable, also, if he Boots and use his ult, jump jets are still a thing. 7.4 range
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Cant we actually have all the adc heros balanced along with eachother insteadā¦
Nivmett screams from the echos: " We do this to change up the meta"
The meta has been the same for the entire season (if not more) all i want is a change.
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I can do that easily for you.
Nerfs every ADC besides Saw
We need changes in the map so that laners are actually laners instead of junglers, and junglers are junglers instead of another roam. 3 roams, one ADC and one mageā¦ What kind of meta is this? Anyone else apart from me is tired of the sustain meta?
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Dude ok Iām gonna ban Baron and Kinetic all the time now. Kinetic is so broken that I canāt believe she went 10/1/2 and her ally Celeste went 21/3/7. I blame the Kinetic for the reason why I lost even though I was playing bot lane gWeN. I should have chosen Kinetic to get an easy victory just like those pros in the VPL. Maybe then I wouldnāt have lost to the ninja turtles but Iām not too sure. It was so hard invading as Baron because I couldnāt even damage them early game at all and the freaking Kinetic kept shooting those green balls at me. THEY DO SO MUCH DAMAGE. Have you tried crystal bit and weapon blade early game with Kinetic Iāve heard that she can poke and then when you try to jump on her she uses all 4 of her stacks AND KILLS YOU. It bothered me even more because the Celeste hit for a double helio which made me first blooded. But still the Kinetic did the trick. The damn slow. I thought they buffed GJ to have 35% damage reduction but I guess not because Iām not able to 3v1 yet. AND DAM IT KENSEI IS PRACTICALLY BF. I wish I had 10 bans so I could ban a fourth of the roster and play some GJ without worrying about any ranged carries who can kill me with 2 shots.
Iām literally telling you as a top/bot main that Kinetic is not strong at all. Perhaps in 3s but not in 5s. Most times pros ban Reza and Kinetic because they counter the plan that they having going on. Reza isnāt that strong but he strong enough that even if enemy team has Phinn and Tony he will still take that Celeste down to the ground. Iām 95% sure that people in high tiers ban Kinetic because her defensive capabilities in the early game is high to the point where she can defend her side of the jungle fairly easily by herself. And thatās balanced considering that she is a single target WP carry that has a difficult time re-positioning. People havenāt been playing Gwen at all but I have touched her a couple of times in my 5v5 matches and she is far more stronger than Kinetic.
I was never talking about 3s.
Okey, say what you want. 1 player experience =/= universal truth. Ive been saying what pros said, what you can see in their streams un high elo, what you see in competitive and the overall experience reflected also in reddit but It seems that one playerās experience is far more accurate ok. Do as you wish.
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literally the best pick in the gameā¦
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You get a like on every post on this thread for being the better man.
@SideRaiderrBoi The reason people despise Kinetic isnāt because sheās 1v5 ultimate carry INSANE DAMAGE!!! Itās because sheās toxic levels of consistently good. You can pick her into basically any matchup and probably have at least slight upper hand. She has the build of a bruiser, making her the best duelist for ranged other than maybe Ringo, she has a stun + large slow with insane range, she has dashes, she has incredibly high base damage (You only need SM BP + 1 to get great damage), sheās hard to dive due to her insane range, she has a great laning phase followed by a great late game, and overall she has no glaring weaknesses. The only way to really counter her it to counter the rest of the team fast enough that she doesnāt shred you like SAW, which is very difficult to do in higher tiers. The only reason her winrate is at 51% is because of one thing: Baron. Since they often both go bot, they donāt often interact, and although Baron is overall not as strong as Kinetic, his late game can not only outrange Kinetic, but he can counter the rest of the team fast enough to deal with her.
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I personally think that the both of you are just too afraid of her. Her abilities consist of a pew pew laser, which does get annoying but Kinetic really doesnāt benefit from just shooting that thing unless she doesnāt have her stacks. Then she has this Vox dash that empowers her next pew pew to make it into a stun that lasts for what seems to be half a second. Half a second is a lot but the ability doesnāt always hit the correct enemy so therefore its pretty much useless in a teamfight. I do agree that she is a strong duelist due to her poke and siege kit but the amount of time it takes her to set up sheās would be last place in the duelist category which consists of BF, Krul, and Rona who all beat her with ease.
SM BP + 1 literally gives everyone high base damage because its all of the core items. Insane range =/ hard to dive. Sheās the easiest weapon power carry to dive besides Ringo as Vox can kit pretty well with that slow and dash and Gwen has a getaway card. Iām not gonna even mention Baron because his jump literally keeps him safe the entire match. Her WR is 51% BECAUSE SHE IS BECOMING WORSE AND WORSE. Both Baron and Kinetic serve two different purposes. One blows up entire teams the other likes to single out and stick onto one person. Thatās why Baron works better with Phinn and Kinetic works better with Tony.
Any good top laner will make her laning phase hell. People who complain about the 2v1 meta are the same people who lack rotational knowledge. If you put two offensive trinkets outside both their red jungle you can tell from their positioning if they are just trying to contest or seriously go in deep. Iāve probably become one of NAās best top laners simply because I realized that instead of *****ing about not getting jungle Iāll take it. Itās not like the enemy is everywhere on the map at the same time.
My last game was me playing Grumpjaw against Kinetic and FREAKING JOSEPH ON LANCE. The guy on Kinetic was a dude who reached high VG silver elo in 3s when it was the only mode. So despite him sitting in 2460s heās a good player and probably has the nastiest of Skyeās. You know what I did? I destroyed them and if it wasnāt for the troll CP SAW pick I would have easily came out with a perfect KDA to show for it. Xelciar was playing mid.
Iāve had people tell me that iām being off-meta (not in a bad way) but whatever Iām doing Iām not having problems with any of these heroes when they were āOPā whether it be Kinetic now or Rona in the past. The only hero giving me issues at the moment would literally be Kensei and a little bit of Sam. I blame Kenseiās OPness mostly on how heās relatively tanky early game and SMās high WP.
Iām a player whoās been playing this game for a while now and sure I donāt follow meta most of the time (Idris bot literally from 3.0 to 3.4) but my ELO backs up for my skill. If you guys think Kinetic is still OP so be it. Her strength lies in split pushing and being a 1v1 menace against non-dive heroes. Her weakness is the fact that she is purely single target and this āsustainā meta doesnāt help her out much. All I know is that Iām 22 ELO away from VG silver and mostly soloqed my way up there. If that doesnāt give me credibility to what I have to say, so be it.
EDIT: I also managed to beat a VG silver Baron as Kinetic so Iām sure her WR isnāt dropping solely because of him 
.
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Kinetic practically has a near 100% ban/pick rate in VPL and almost every game she isnāt banned the team that secures her gets an easy win.
That says something you know, Kinetic is pretty powerful.
Some people above have been mentioning Vox and Skye are better and more consistent than her. Dude? There is a reason why Kinetic is more favoured among pros than almost any bot laner, and Vox canāt beat a number of top laners he faces against. Kinetic has a decent to good matchups with almost any top laner because of her insane range + her dash. Skye has a shorter range and offers less damage, not to mention her high skill cap. Kinetic is just much more consistent.
I am not sure if even Kestrel, one of the best one v one heroes against fellow weapon power carries, can beat kinetic in a one v one because of her dash+slow and her ultimate follows her through stealth.(though Kestrel is not in the best spot in the meta atm, I hope you get my point considering her sustained burst DPS is still one of the highest in the game.
Kinetic is like borderline OP-OP level in most matches. She rarely doesnāt perform unless she has been shut down hard in the early game which shouldnāt happen because of the fact that she should be with her jungler at that moment clearing the jungle.
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Vox is not about beating them in 1v1, Vox excels in teamfights where he can just kite his enemies to death.
If you miss the diver thatās trying to get point blank in your face you deserve to lose. This works if youāre talking about diving with Kinetic, but diving with Kinetic is generally done after the teamfight is over, because sheās better at kiting backwards. When the teamfight is over (or close to over) there are less players to accidentslly hit. Also this point is inheritely pretty strange. Just because a Kinetic misses their snipe target doesnāt make the ability pretty much useless. Thatās just you making another one of those āoh hey sometimes this happensā arguments, which doesnāt excuse the other 10 times where the other player actually does something right for a change.
Last place in the duelist catagory is a big deal for a ranged characters, especially when peel support is much more prevelant than dive support. Being able to hold your own for a decently long time against any melee diving you 1v1 is a godsend. Plus, nobody finds dueling Kinetic easy as a melee, especially compared to picks like Baron, Gwen or Vox. Itās not uncommon to see characters that honestly SHOULD be destroying her in a 1v1 (aka the ones pictured above) either surviving with barely any health remaining or even outright losing.
Thatās not the definition of base damage. 
Base damage is the BASE DAMAGE that come from your ability levels. This means the damage comes before WP, CP and any other sort of scaling. Kinetic has high base damage because of her big numbers in her kit.
I donāt know if this was a brainfart or if this was a genuine thing you didnāt know but if it was, Vainglorious in NA really has fallenā¦
If youāre going to say Vox has a slow (which is pretty weak), Kinetic has a stun. Gwen is actually overall one of the easier characters to dive if you do it on the right characters because of her low base movespeed. She generally pops against assassins like BF or Idris pretty quickly. I feel like Gwen, Kinetic and Kestrel have more similar kiting abilities, and are about average. Baron does not kite, he repositions.
Baronās jump actually has a very high CD early game and his laning phase most definitely can be abused. Kinetic also shares this long CD on her dash, but she also has longer range, a big slow, higher base movespeed and the second highest ranged level 1HP in the game (Hi Silvernail), so thatās fun.
Actually, if you check VGPro and do some RESEARCH, you can see that since her release her winrate has gone up every patch.
I guess Iāll see you at VPL. Give me a shoutout, Iāll be waiting.
If you destroyed Kinetic, chances are you would have destroyed almost every OTHER bot lane pick. Grump is fantastic because of the early game dominance he has. If the enemy team went Vox, Baron or Gwen Iām sure they would have taken an L just as hard or possibly even harder, since they all have weaker laning phases.
Actually itās helping her out a lot. You do realise that Kinetic and Vox were the first characters to switch to a SM BP build after the Shiv nerfs.
I trust words more than a number. If an image is a thousand words, words are a thousand numbers, because just looking at numbers isnāt going to fix anything without context (cough cough vg balance team). The words that you consistently type are ones that are
- Unreasearched. Any evidence you have comes down to your own personal experiences. I personally donāt find numbers to be engaging to use for this type of talk, but when it fits, I will.
- Quite arrogant. For all I know, you may be the best top laner in the world, but using that as a trump card shows me that youāre really not suited to this conversation thing. If you want to put it anywhere, put it at the beginning as a little piece of context.
- Ignorant. There are so many points of contention that you could choose, but you have to go through your route of using personal experience as evidence. It hurts me on the inside.
Iām glad I waited on responding to this, because this edit is the perfect display of why I will never give you credibility (as long as this continues). Itās unreasearched, arrogant, and most of all, if you actually WENT ONTO VGPRO AND LOOKED AT THEIR WINRATES KINETIC HAS A SLIGHT EDGE. Just pointing that out would have been much more powerful than all six of your paragraphs. Plus, if you backed it up with a potential explanation it would have given you a good, solid, researched point.
But no.
I guess not.
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Okay folks, this is starting to get too heated and too personal. Closing the topic. Start a new one if you want to continue discussing things in a calmer and more civil manner.
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