Many times as a cp carry have I considered getting JBs. Some times, like on Reim, it was worth it. The reality is that JBs assist every hero, be it cp, wp, or defense. HCs on the other hand only assist in creating massive distance over time, which is essential to ranged cp ranged carries and optional to skill based captains, but does not benefit anyone else. Where WTs are concerned, multiple wts only benefit a coordinates team, therefore, in totality, you are more likely to see JBs in a given match based on certain criteria. This impetrates the need for balance.
Well you could get jbs on someone like grace or phinn if you were on a coordinated team and your ranged carry decided to pick wts up for you, and some heroes like anka have a ‘dash’ but benefit from jbs more than hcs. So does baptiste as cp. I wouldn’t say that rule strictly applies, and as in graces or phinns case, it actually benefits them more as capt if your ranged carry can use wt because it frees them to be more aggressive with their positioning and apply pressure with abilities in ways they wouldn’t be able to without a dash, while ranged carries are likely to sit behind with the team anyway and might utilize cw naturally in their build to actually get wts off cooldown more often.
Most of that is true. Again, situationally you could actually utilize jb on some captains to get them in and out of positions better if they have close range abilities, regardless of whether people usually do it. Anka is not a melee hero. She has her execute but is not usually attempting to melee until she has enemies down enough health, and her B has so much range as to put her in danger in teamfights, not to mention her C is most dmging if used to initiate into a team rather than away from, so jb helps her immensly.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with a ranged carry buying wts. They usually backline with the team anyway. Just because it isn’t done often doesn’t mean it is detrimental to them depending on your playstyle.
You are right, she is a long ranged back line mage.
So because she has a ranged ability she is no longer melee? That means that Baptiste, Reim, krul, San Feng, Tony, reza, yates, phin and Catherine are melee… I’ve been tricked my whole life!
There is everything wrong with a carry building WT. the amount of kitting you are losing is extremely important. There is no carry that can benefit from going in and out, which offers a lot more than WT do to them. Adagio, Silvernail and Vox use it as a core item, Ringo needs it due to his lack of scape, Gwen needs it to go in and out and not burn her B, kinetic needs it to reposition or kite to use any of her abilities, baron needs it to compensate his slow movement speed and abuse his double attack without being punished. There is no carry that benefits from WT.
Inara is one of the most mobile heroes in the game, and she still benefits from . She can alternate them with her Ult and her B to be effectively running around at enhanced speed for an entire fight (bonus points for ). Inara can also benefit from and though, so I don’t see it as a problem.
I think that where there is a problem with , it’s that there is often no downside to buying them, or no reason to buy something else. If a hero is too powerful with JB, then maybe their energy use should be tweaked so that they are encouraged to build HC as an alternative. Ranged WP carries should typically feel a little limited if they don’t build either Spellsword or Halcyon Chargers — if they want to go without energy regen then they should typically run out of energy before they can use their A, B, and Ult in a fight.
There’s a lot of bickering going on in a couple of threads today, this one included. While everyone is entitled to express their opinions here, I’ll remind everyone that EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINIONS HERE. If you wish to disagree with someone, do not do so by attacking or insulting them.
I’m not sure how we got so off topic, but let’s get it back.
Objectively speaking, I don’t see an argument against JB being the best of the boots. High base speed. Long duration. Shortest cool down.
Do we not remember that carries, junglers, both ranged and melee, existed with JB before it got this refresh buff? There was actually more variety though. Sometimes your jg got WT. Sometimes your carry got HC.
Since the JB buff, from my experience, 95+% of junglers and carries (t10 play) use JB. The ability to “Sprint” every 10s is insane. Especially, using the original example, on a hero like Adagio. It removes one of his few weaknesses.
I guarantee you if you made the refresh to 15 or 20 sec instead of 10, it’d still be the most commonly purchased boots, but at least there’d be more variety and mages and carries would exist just fine.
I agree it would still be the most common, but that’s mostly due to lack of options. If you nerf the refresh to 20s **and ** give other compelling choices it would be perfectly fine.
I would add “Trackers Soles” that build out of multi cam. They would naturally have some cooldown and energy from multi cam, so the price would need to be a little higher, but they would still be inferior to halcyon chargers from an ability standpoint.
I would also add “War Greaves” that build out of War Mail and offer the same defense stats. These should probably .5 bonus move speed in stead of the standard .7.
I think these additions like this would do a lot to provide choices since they are not designed for any specific hero or role. The issue with HC is that they become the default for mages, simply because that’s what they are meant for. As a jungler would would have to chose between vision, mobility, defense, or team mobility. bot laners would probably still opt for journey boots, but defense is quite valuable and could help win trades especially in the early/mid.
Hehe, sorry, I generally don’t think of Inara as ‘melee’ due to her range.
I haven’t seen the range of her A listed anywhere, but it seems to be around 4.5 or 5 based on how it compares to other heroes (she seems to be able to hit Lance from just outside his basic attack range) The range of her B seems to be a bit longer, but it can be helpful to get closer for it since it seems to connect so randomly. She has no melee-range abilities, nothing to improve her basic attacks, and nothing to help her survive in melee range.
I could go way off topic on how to play Inara, but the short version is that she typically plays like a ranged hero, even though she’s drawn with melee weapons.
She’s ‘melee’ in the sense that Lance, Ylva, or Vox are.
I mentioned that if JB are problematic on a particular sniper, then the problem is probably wit the sniper’s energy regen. Gwen is an example of a hero who can have energy problems if she doesn’t build some type of regeneration. Her Ult consumes 100 energy at every level, and her B uses up to 80, so if the enemy keeps pressure on her they can run her down low enough that she can’t use abilities. So she can chose between HC, which will let her use her abilities freely at the cost of some mobility, JB, which will give her the mobility but force her to be more conservative with abilities, or JB + Spellsword, which gives her the mobility but reduced her damage a bit.
I think most snipers are pretty balanced though — the choices have sufficient opportunity costs. I can see Adagio being a problem, since he doesn’t loose out from not building energy. Ringo might be a little problem since Twirling Silver is very inexpensive, allowing him to use it a lot without running out.
(That’s if you thin JB are a problem — I don’t think they are. Shiversteel on a ranged hero tends to wreck anyone who leans too heavily on JB.)
I just moved a bunch of posts out of this thread because they were completely unrelated. Please try to remember that this is a forum for discussion of topics of interest to the community, not for arguments between two or three people.
Begin able to use speed boost 3+ times during a teamfight is absurd no matter how u guys trying to def it, u are allowed to make 3+ times mistake and still can walk out of it like nothing. Just imagine u are able to use RB 3+ times during a teamfight if u still fail to understand the OPness of JB right now, even pro players said it broken as well
It can be really effective aggressively too. For example a lot of ringo players fire up JB + B and thus they are FASTER than their running target (as B gives speed boost, so in reality you are faster + got the advantage of activating first, the enemy needs time to react + you will kill his boots with A). Also in general, I see a lot of ringo players do that both 1vs1 and in teamfights and deal dmg while skill shots miss them + in no time the boots are up again.
To sum it up, JB are defo the must buy for carries and even most of the junglers. Only mid mages build HC as they need the energy. Captains generally stick to WT and that’s it (maybe utility top too here and there) - all the others are buying JB and must buy them if they want to have the edge. Having the option to run every 10 seconds is FAR better than 4-4.5 energy recharge.
A bit of both the reasons you specified - I already have “boots” every five seconds making the advantage I get from the higher slow better than JB. However, that’s personal playstyle preference. A bit of it is also because WT is usually my third T3 completed and I have it completed far before the roam does, giving my team an earlier cohesiveness
. She can alternate them with her Ult and her B to be effectively running around at enhanced speed for an entire fight (bonus points for 
). Inara can also benefit from 
and 
though, so I don’t see it as a problem.
