It's Time to Fix Sovereign's Rise

Vainglory Discussion 5v5
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I was skeptical of 3.9’s map adjustments right away, but I decided to give them some time to see how they play. I’m not impressed.

SEMC has been taking the careful approach to fixing the Rise, slowly moving gold, timers, and power levels around the lane and jungle to combat the duo rotations and lack of a dedicated jungler. For a time it seemed like this would work. With 3.9 taking this approach to it’s most extreme conclusion, we have to accept that no matter how quickly waves spawn, or how much health you give jungle monsters, you are still going to have a utility jungler who rotates around bot lane. The only way this approach will work is if you gut ambient gold in lane and jungle to the extant that captains will be starved.

With that in mind, this is my solution:

Part 1: Map Changes

  • Revert Minion tankyness to what it was in 3.8. The increase in 3.9 make early laning frustrating, and only serves to try and keep laners in lane (which my changes will address separately)

  • Reduce duration of early game turret barrier to 3:00.

  • Remove ambient gold and experience.

  • Reduce jungle monster health slightly. All jungle monsters take 33% reduced damage from heroes.

  • Increase xp earned from jungle monsters slightly, greatly reduce gold earned (probably by a factor of 15% or so)

Part 2: Contracts
Contracts build into nothing, and can be picked up at the start of the game, making them the perfect tool to impact the early laning phase, and define hero roles without forcing heroes into tier 3 items that would limit build paths. For example t3 jungler items.

Captain contracts: ironguard, dragonsblood, and protector

Increase the gold cost of captain contracts to 600.

All captain contracts have the unique passive “Wealth Distribution” which reads: Permanently gain a portion of the gold and experience equal to 70% (15% for jungle monsters) of nearby allied heroes upon killing a jungle monster or lane minion, even after this item is sold.

Jungler contracts

Jungler contracts cost 300 gold.

All jungler contracts have the unique passive “Monster Hunster” which reads: You deal full damage to jungle monsters. note: this is in referance to the 33% damage reduction of jungler monsters, which heroes with monster hunter ignore

Pillagers Contract
Active: Deal damage equal to 10% (2% for mythic creatures) of target’s max HP, to target jungle monster or mythic creature. If this kills it’s target, deal 130 crystal damage to nearby enemies. 5s cooldown, has 2 charges, 30 second charge time.

note: great for contesting enemy jungle camps

Farmers Contract
Passive: 5 seconds after you kill a jungle monster, a sprout will appear for 3 seconds on that location. Heroes walking over the sprout consume it gaining 10 gold and 3 xp.

note: slows your rotations but increases gold/xp output, great for passive farming

Hunters Contract
Passive: Each time you kill a jungle monster gain 1 stack. Max of 6 stacks.

Active: Consume all stacks, gain increased movement speed for 3 seconds. Your next basic attack during this time will deal 15/stack additional weapon damage and slows it’s target by 2%/stack for 1.5 seconds. You must have at least one stack to activate. 15s cooldown.

note: perfect for ganking in between jungle clears

Conclusion
I know what you are thinking. Everyone can just buy contracts and play just like they do now, but these changes put a huge tax on anyone wishing to do so. A bot lane duo would require the jungler to put his entire first but into a captain contract, and the bot laner to buy a jungler contract for the clear speed. That’s 900 gold and
a significantly weaker early game, not to mention worse returns on the jungle gold, and less XP for the jungler. The point is these changes put pressure on players to properly fill their roles, a mid laner would have to spend far more time taking nearby jungle, and unless someone else on the team bought a captain contract none of that gold would be shared with key players. Right now the optimal strategy is always going to be 1-2-2 in some form. rotating as a two duos maximizes ambient gold to an extreme, I think a change similar to what I’m suggesting needs to be done, or nothing will ever really change.

3 Likes
2

Literally the only thing they need to do is add Gold toad. The map will be instantly fixed.

11 Likes
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I just hope contracts can be sold close to full price
(An of course a winter map)

1 Like
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This would actually be a bad thing as it would make them far easier for non captains to pick up. I would have them go for 0 gold to make their cost more limiting so everyone can’t pick them up as easily.

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It’s close to full price, so like 200-250.
And for once, I really don’t mind more ppl picking up contracts. Scout Packs and contract need some more love.

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Remove the map mirroring 303030

3 Likes
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I like what I see :potoo:

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4 Likes
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I’m sorry, but I just don’t get all the fuss about ambient gold in lane and shared xp. You’d remove both? I’m sorry, but that is just dumb. Captains have to have some form of leveling up and earning gold.

Instead, they need to slightly reduce the ambient gold. Also, if you’re receiving ambient gold, you’re receiving ambient experience. You shouldn’t get the full xp of the minion/hero getting killed that the person getting the kill does. I’m not sure how it is currently, but if it’s even split like that, it shouldn’t be. To my point though, you need ambient gold and xp in MOBA. NEED IT. It can just be less than what it is now.

The map is the biggest issue. They can keep it mirrored if they want (I’d advise against it). The jungle needs to be harder to access for the opposing team and it needs to be a more calculated risk. The respawn time needs to be slighlty reduced to force junglers to make a decision as to whether they’re staying in the jungle to keep up with the spawns and maximize gold, or risk falling behind on spawn cycles a bit if they’re going to help in lane.

Here is a very easy adjustment to the map, with it remaining mirrored, that SEMC could make to accomplish this:

EDIT: I removed the screenshot. My laptop is acting funny and I’m having a tough time editing and saving. Hopefully, my written descrioption works. The access ppint to the barrier/healing treant camp that is off of the river. Block that off. This would make it so the only way to access this (top or bot) is to go past the turrent and through the bush, or through the mid-lane access point near where the CP treant is and looping around.

Block off those access points. It helps the most vulnerable lane (top) feel a bit safer, and it makes invading the enemy jungle on that side of the map a more risky and lenghty process, as you have to creep toward the middle, and swing around to grab the barrier treant camp. It still keeps the opposing team’s cp treant accessible and makes for the same fun and action packed early game mid-fights.

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Literally every suggestion to remove it also suggest to add roam and/or jungle items. And this one does too. Roams will have a way to earn money and exp. Don’t see your point.

2 Likes
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I really love the idea of new contracts. I dont often see them but if these ones became a thing, i would totally buy them. Besides the fact that new items are the coolest in my opinion, its nice that someone has chosen contracts to look at and not defense items like SEMC has for the past 2 updates.

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I agree, ambient gold needs to be reduced. How is xp split currently? If there are two heroes in a lane, is the xp split evenly or is there overflow of some kind where one person gets 100% and the other 75%?

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I think it’s 85% and 60%? At least in the past, I don’t remember if they changed it when they reworked the jungle too.

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I noticed that not only did the remove ambient gold completely from the jungle, still a move I don’t totally agree with, but they also removed any shared xp from the jungle monsters as well. By the way, welcome to the forums! :sunglasses: