Because I play mostly as a captain I used to crystal infuse because that’s what pro captains used to do for cooldown , the interesting thing is the infusions has cooldown reduction and attack speed while these two things changed by vainglory Devs , there is a cap for them both , so that made me think about infusions being available early game with strong stats for short period of time , so if you are a hero going to build cooldown or attack speed that makes the infusion you going to buy less effective , why not go full damage less attack speed and less cooldown and make the infusion complete what you miss .
And the other thing is why we captains don’t have something for our health path , give me health buff or more protection based on my bonus health , the infusions are a waste of gold .
For a captain fortress what is best late game ? , wp or cp infusion ?
but what about the bleeding and basic attacks , so if you playing for example cp fortress and you have enough cooldown and good cp damage , you pick cp infusion over wp infusion ? Why ? , you still remember the old days when we used to double infuse , so if fortress wants to slow his enemy he probably need attack speed more than cp damage right ?
It offers him attack speed = faster applying of B effect. It’s not “good” imho, but it’s something I guess.
On the topic, I would argue that infusion is not a good choice for a captain early (minus some rare special cases). Captains suffer in gold currently by a lot (even with the reduced prices for captain items) and better save it for t3 items that can lead to power spikes/better teamfights. Don’t forget also that the bonus stats of the infusions scales with levels, so the effects are not that strong early.
The ult already gives him attack speed and your team can trigger it too, the attack speed of the WP infusion is less than the benefits of the CP infusion.
@LegendaryE CP fortress don usually reach the maximum cooldown without the infusion. For the slow, as I mentioned before, your allies can trigger it too, so the attack speed you get form the WP infusion is meaningless compared to the CP one.
Btw, I agree with @cha0z, infusions early game for captains are a waste, they should focus on getting the items, infusions don’t give them any meaningful advantage.
I didn’t say it’s better to get WP infusion on fort vs CP, I am just saying that it’s not “offers nothing”. It offers a lot less than CP, but still offers something. Tho as I said, for me getting infusion on any captain before full build/late game before important team fight - not a good decision.
The infusions early vs late is not towards captains , it towards the carries and junglers , heroes like koshka grumpjaw alpha San feng , they so tanky early that infusions can make them so strong early game vs late game , even super early , like I matched with YLVA alpha and koshka players start with a lvl1 infusion , and I personally tried it on grumpjaw I bought lvl1 infusion and saved 100 gold , I got armor shield attack speed and wp power for 120 seconds , the idea is these heroes going to fall late game anyway so why not abuse their early game .
Because after thinking about what infusions give , it gives attack speed for wp and cooldown for cp and both of them late game useless for a lot of heroes because they already built attack speed and cooldown , so it like the infusions there to push the early game more than the late game , while a lot of players buy them late and prefer full build over them .
For captains Iam asking for another infusion buff the health or give more protection , I feel the captains are easy to die especially in 5v5 .
But for fortress you only take the cp buff you already reached the cap on cooldown , while wp infusion gives you attack speed and wp with your ult it makes him even better , now what about lance cp or wp infusion ? .
Early game heroes like koshka tend to infuse at level 6, never earlier as the effect of the infusion is lower. Also, 500 gold at level 1 is huge, and in most cases a waste. San Feng doesn’t really benefit from infusing, so I wouldn’t do it until full build.
It’s very rare to use a build that reaches the cooldown cap before infusing, and even then, those usually benefit more from the CP it provides than from the attack speed. Ifnfusions are in general a waste in the early game, the bonus it gives with the cost they have don’t give enough advantage to justify picking them over items, if you do you will eventually get outscale faster.
Contrary to what people think, I don’t think a health/defence infusion is needed. Captains already tank quite a bit unless focused, in which case they are not attacking your team. A strong defence infusion could lead to carries buying it and making them more tanky than they should.
For fortress I already discussed that so not gonna continue. For lance, if it’s WP lance then obviously wp infusion, otherwise I prefer the CP one for less cooldowns, more tankiness and more utility. Also, the Cp buff does not give cooldown reduction, it only gives higher cp damage (=/= cp) and vampirism.
Easy - CP. His passive/active defence scales with CP + he got CP rations on skills + his stun is longer with CP. Cooldown is also a plus. The armour/shield is on both infusions, so won’t comment that part.
Oh, WP is commented… for me in the current meta this is pretty much a dead patch for him… still could work, but a lot of other better choices (tho this can go also for captain lance, they actually hit him as hard as WP with the changes). For WP lance - WP infusion should be the better choice.
I personally don’t start getting infusions until around level 6, as @Guest_78 mentioned. A) the infusions scale with your level and B) I’m still farming and have a lot of work to do on my build still.
That said, I buy several infusions in a game. When I go to shop, if I have 500-700 left over gold, I’m getting an infusion as I slowly complete my build. It’s so helpful in team fights, and by level 6 and later, more team fights should be going on or at least you should be getting more involved in them. The amount of assists/hero kills the infusion will help you get will quickly make up the 500 you spent.
This is a good topic to really bring this to most players’ attention.
I’ve seen level 1 infusions before and it’s never worked out in their favor. I remember seeing it and looking at the math and I saw it is more efficient than buying two tier 1 items but only for the time period it’s effective. I would think they aren’t helpful unless you dominate the early game. I think I kill at level 1-3 is roughly 250 gold and that’s IF you get the kill. And if you get the kill I don’t see it paying off unless you take their whole rotation after at the very least.
In a 3v3 match I can see a level 3 infusion working at which point you could take an educated guess where the opponent is and if their farm is up. The reason why a level 1 is a risky, especially in solo q 3s, is that they could all just clear their backs before you get to them if you choose to do an deep invade strategy at level 1. And when it comes to level 1 mid treant fighting a team with storm guards will most often win the mid treant.
I prefer to infuse at level 8 and that’s if I’m already ahead. If you’re behind and infusing you’re literally just tryng to scrape whatever advantage you could get. Or a better way to look at it is you’re really just prolonging your misery until your eventual collapse. And at high elo more often than not a trio queue won’t lose their advantage easily if at all.
In short I recommend infusing at 6 or 8 for your earliest infusion. And only if you’re ahead.
Mostly agree, except here. Infusions can be a great way to catch up. Especially if you have both tier 2 items needed, but you’re not close the amount of gold needed to complete it’s t3. An infusion can give you a boost to do more in the next team fight to help toward your comeback. Especially if the winning team is NOT taking advantage of using infusions.
Yeah what is crazy in 5v5 for example my teammates fighting the enemy 4v5 , and that’s the obvious disadvantage , the other disadvantages were enemy got the treant buffs and ghostwing and they were infused .
I don’t like fighting infused enemy especially if they are a head but my teammates force the fights so that’s a problem , I might be wrong but why not infusing in unexpected time to gain an advantage , lvl6 , lvl9 and lvl12 are the lvls you expect enemy infuse and you infuse .
So if you guys saying early infusions bad , does that mean they need a rework and a buff early to be worth buying , because they are available from the start and you can buy them easy .
I used to think early infusions were good too, but I’ve learned it’s almost always more effective to just go for your core items. After that it’s another story, however there are situations where infusions actually help more. It is more situational to the current state of your team push than to the state of your build. For example, if you see your team in a teamfight but you’re at base, infusions may help push the tides. Same for if you’re in a mode where you can’t return to base but are respawning and your team is holding down the fort. Otherwise, just build your items.
So basically, my rule of thumb is if I’m walking into a brawl and a) i have my core items or b) i don’t but it is essential that we don’t lose an objective and I can make it to the fight in time, then I infuse. Otherwise, I build items. And I almost never infuse before the full build simply because of the fact that logically, temporary doesn’t hold a candle to lasting.
I mean semc removed the iron guard contract and reworked the contracts and my opinion like your opinion now that if you don’t get much from them Late game doesn’t mean semc need to rework them and make a path for them to be good late game and have their own path build .
I think situational items need to be good early and late game and players should decide if it’s worth or not , all players buy infusion late game , but you still see a player has 3 tier3 items and building towards 4th item and refusing to infuse for the fight and that could cost his team the game.
I still remember i think it was starting all over on twitch pushing to vg gold soloq , he almost infused every two lvls in one game.
So for example the hard to balance stormcrown should be removed and the replacement should be infusions , if you want to take objectives or steal objective or farm better you think between infusions or build tier3 item , make the jungle farm normal like before the rework and give infusions power against them faster farm and ability to steal , decision making games (that’s an example I can’t defend it 100% but the balance team could make it work) .
Most players won’t even check/look for infusions… and I am talking about VG bronze players lol. Right now the real VGs are either silvers/2500-2599 bronze or are soloq hell in VG bronze (as soloq to silver will need a lot of time invested, not many will play that much nowdays).
CP varya is a thing in t10 + CP taka and their friend in the trio - grump with the most absurd build I had saw in a year, ofc in my team. This vs 2 silvers and me as a captain. Or second game vs atleast one silver and two friends in my team trolling me (one of them picked by himself captain position, I am first pick and mark the last not taken position that is bot - he says lyra, I pick lyra for him = he pick adagio for WP bot :))) and didn’t even communicate past few words to his mate). Boy oh boy, wasn’t that game a lot of fun?
CP varya is a thing in t10 + CP taka and their friend in the trio - grump with the most absurd build I had saw in a year, ofc in my team. This vs 2 silvers and me as a captain. Or second game vs atleast one silver and two friends in my team trolling me (one of them picked by himself captain position, I am first pick and mark the last not taken position that is bot - he says lyra, I pick lyra for him = he pick adagio for WP bot :))) and didn’t even communicate past few words to his mate). Boy oh boy, wasn’t that game a lot of fun?